Reqfu's MoP Windwalker BiS list & Theorycraft

[briswindus]

I don't understand why no one is talking about Thok's Tail Tip... If you don't have Heroic Seigecrafter down you should be using Thok as your 2nd trinket along with Haromm's. It is flat out better then AoC when comparing Heroic/Heroic and Norm/Norm. 7% increase to critical damage and Haste and Mastery is pretty nice...

[Miuh]

I don't understand why no one is talking about Thok's Tail Tip... If you don't have Heroic Seigecrafter down you should be using Thok as your 2nd trinket along with Haromm's. It is flat out better then AoC when comparing Heroic/Heroic and Norm/Norm. 7% increase to critical damage and Haste and Mastery is pretty nice...

Don't know about everyone else, but I would feel pissed at strength users if they ever took an Agi one, so they would feel the same. So yes it's good to take if no-one else can take it, but never take it over any Str Users (bigger benefit as a raid for them than for you).

[Totaltotemic]

I don't understand why no one is talking about Thok's Tail Tip... If you don't have Heroic Seigecrafter down you should be using Thok as your 2nd trinket along with Haromm's. It is flat out better then AoC when comparing Heroic/Heroic and Norm/Norm. 7% increase to critical damage and Haste and Mastery is pretty nice...

If you don't have Siegecrafter down that means you can't have killed Thok more than 3 or 4 times max, and you sure as hell shouldn't be taking that trinket over any Strength user when it's by far the best trinket for all 3 of them (except CDR for some). Normal Thok's also isn't very good. You can say it's "pretty nice" but the fact of the matter is that the passive has to be a lot better than anything else's passive to outweigh missing an Agility proc. It just doesn't hold up to other trinkets unless you're sitting at over 55% crit all the time and can get at least a heroic one. Add in the fact that you can't possibly roll for Thok's and there's no reason why you should be actively looking for it.

Not sure why you'd mention AoC and not TED though, anyone using a normal AoC is obviously extremely unlucky with trinkets.

[Dolzzy]

I have Normal Thok Tails Whip upgraded 2/2 but i also have Rentaki's trinket and i love agility proc on it. Does quite a bit of DMG if you match well with FOF. I also have Flex AOC upgraded. So should i also use Thok Tails Whip?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olzzy/advanced

[Weriik]

We generally want 2p t16 and then 3 warforged off pieces if we can get them, right? I currently have a H warforged hood of blackened tears and a H warforged Riou's vigilant leggings and I was wondering where I should look for my third off piece. I currently have H tier gloves and a H tier chest, but the chest off Norushen is looking the best for me right now and I can probably get heroic tier shoulders soon since H Siegecrafter isn't that far off for my guild.

[jazzyy]

We generally want 2p t16 and then 3 warforged off pieces if we can get them, right? I currently have a H warforged hood of blackened tears and a H warforged Riou's vigilant leggings and I was wondering where I should look for my third off piece. I currently have H tier gloves and a H tier chest, but the chest off Norushen is looking the best for me right now and I can probably get heroic tier shoulders soon since H Siegecrafter isn't that far off for my guild.

I think you'd want to get:

H WF Gloves of The Golden Protector
H WF Robes of the Blackened Water
H WF Hood Of The Blackened Tears

Riou's Vigilant Leggings are bad. Our Tier Leggings are great. Our Tier Shoulders are also good. (However yes the Tier we want is off two of the hardest bosses in SoO, so it's a pretty big nope to get but whatever.)

Gloves of the Golden Protector give Hit/Crit while Korgra's Venom Soaked Gauntlets is gonna give Crit/Mastery same as our Tier.

I don't have the math behind which is best cause I'm too lazy to calculate it all but this is definitely what you should be aiming for, you're also probably using the crappy Hit ring off Norushen and possibly a Softfoot Last Resort or two so hit cap will be easily accomplished.

[Totaltotemic]

This set of tier gear is very annoying if you're trying to min/max gear. Three of the 5 pieces are Crit/mastery, making them the default worst 3. Unfortunately the two that don't are shoulders and pants, which drop off the 12th and 13th bosses respectively, and shoulders are a lower budget slot than helm/chest/legs. So picking up the 2p is more of a combination of what you have available to you and how little mastery you have to force yourself to deal with.

Helm - Immerseus helm is perfect and early, way earlier than heroic tier helm. You can pretty safely say that helm is NOT a piece you want to use for tier.

Chest - Norushen chest has haste instead of mastery from the tier chest (which drops off Sha and is also very early), but it has yellow and blue sockets which aren't ideal. It's not a bad choice for a tier piece but I got lucky and got a heroic warforged chest off Norushen so I run with that.

Gloves - Low budget slot, as such what exactly you use isn't a big deal. Norushen gloves have hit and a blue socket (ew, 700+ forced hit) While Galakras gloves have mastery and a yellow socket on them (again, non-red sockets aren't very good). Meanwhile tier gloves have double red sockets and mastery, making them technically slightly worse than the Norushen ones if you could actually handle that much hit. The alternatives not being good and being a low budget slot makes tier gloves the MOST IDEAL mastery tier piece to have to wear if you really need to (you'll find most heroic WWs wearing them).

Shoulders - Low budget again, tier is better itemized than the two alternatives (which both have non-red sockets and mastery), but there's that annoying issue that the third to last boss in the entire expansion drops them. Normal tier shoulders isn't a bad idea for 2p because the alternatives suck even if they are heroic, but still not necessarily ideal because...

Legs - Tier pants are perfectly itemized except for yellow sockets, but no hit/expertise/mastery to deal with here. What's more is that the alternative is awful, double blue sockets and mastery. I'd go with the shitty Dark Shaman pants if you manage to get a warforged one, but if not heroic gloves + normal legs would be the best setup.

So possible setups are, from best to worst:

Heroic legs + heroic gloves
Heroic legs + heroic shoulders
Heroic shoulders + heroic gloves
Normal legs + heroic gloves
Normal shoulders + heroic gloves
Anything involving chest/helm.

This is all assuming you have access to the best off pieces. There's no reason to be missing normal shoulders or legs if you really need them because normal Siege + Paragons + Garrosh should basically be disenchant and random off specs by this point. Of course don't switch out if you don't have a suitable off piece, i.e. if you don't actually have a heroic chest off piece you wouldn't drop your tier chest.

[jazzyy]

What about taking Brewmaster's H Tier Chestpiece instead of the Robes off of Norushen? You lose WF but you gain a Crit Bias (1559 crit, 1253 haste) vs 1175 crit 1746 Haste. You lose about 100~ secondary stats but you lose a blue/yellow slot and gain 2 reds. Also losing a base ~200 agility. I mean this seems reasonable as well if you also consider the fact getting a H WF off Norushen is fairly hard.. Getting a H Tier off Sha seems easier since you should be double rolling for it since it's a possible H WF AoC and for me that's a lot better than my Flex TED ;-;

[Totaltotemic]

What about taking Brewmaster's H Tier Chestpiece instead of the Robes off of Norushen? You lose WF but you gain a Crit Bias (1559 crit, 1253 haste) vs 1175 crit 1746 Haste. You lose about 100~ secondary stats but you lose a blue/yellow slot and gain 2 reds. Also losing a base ~200 agility. I mean this seems reasonable as well if you also consider the fact getting a H WF off Norushen is fairly hard.. Getting a H Tier off Sha seems easier since you should be double rolling for it since it's a possible H WF AoC and for me that's a lot better than my Flex TED ;-;

It's a decent alternative but a warforged Robes is way better than the BrM tier. The difference in crit and haste weighting actually is a negative more than a positive unless you're already up at 11k haste, and even then it's literally impossible to get so much haste gear that you can't reforge enough of it off. Of course betting on a warforged item is part of what destroys the entire "BiS" idea, you're free to take your own chances.

[Razorlor]

So I've been reading a lot of hate about AoC...

I haven't been lucky enough to get a Harroms yet...should I just use Renataki's over AoC? Is it really that bad?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rmonk/advanced

[Totaltotemic]

Lol nice PvP gear. As probably the originator of the "AoC is a bunch of crap" theory, that's only in comparison with other SoO trinkets. It's generally better than any ToT trinket provided it's the same or higher item level.

[Arathirius]

A 549 renatakis will still honestly be a better trinket than AoC if used properly. It has a simple to use proc that allows you to set up to use your hard hitting abilities and snapshot FoF with 10 stacks. RPPM trinkets are better by nature than ICD trinkets when we look at how to use the proc well since we can stock TeB and use them in conjunction with procs. ICD is not bad by any means, we just have less average uptime to synchronize with a TeB. If you are comparing heroic AoC to 549 Renatakis it goes on which proc you can use better. The problem with AoC is the proc is the primary value gained out of the trinket. We wont be using EB directly off CD, and the amount of time between FoF usages is almost never lower than 25 seconds if you use FoF properly.

[bounstar]

In an perfect world I would take shoulders and legs with HWF off-pieces. Honestly though, with the drops I had in my guild runs, I gave up on the idea of full HWF a month in. Holding out for the perfect set of pieces we're looking at anywhere from 2-3% increase at most IF you get all of the off pieces. There is no way I would get that before Garrosh prog where it matters and you just gotta make due with what you can get.

[Totaltotemic]

A 549 renatakis will still honestly be a better trinket than AoC if used properly. It has a simple to use proc that allows you to set up to use your hard hitting abilities and snapshot FoF with 10 stacks. RPPM trinkets are better by nature than ICD trinkets when we look at how to use the proc well since we can stock TeB and use them in conjunction with procs. ICD is not bad by any means, we just have less average uptime to synchronize with a TeB. If you are comparing heroic AoC to 549 Renatakis it goes on which proc you can use better. The problem with AoC is the proc is the primary value gained out of the trinket. We wont be using EB directly off CD, and the amount of time between FoF usages is almost never lower than 25 seconds if you use FoF properly.

Problem is those two things contradict each other. You can't use FoF just because a trinket procced, most fights won't allow that. On top of that, this is only from a sustained single target DPS perspective, in any kind of AoE situation FoF isn't even a consideration. The energy from EB out of a heroic AoC vastly outweighs the expertise (that you likely don't need) from Renataki's and the proc is 25 ilvls higher. 549 Renataki's at 10 stacks is only 3k more Agi than Aoc's proc. There's no way it even comes close to heroic AoC.

[Arathirius]

Its value is in the fact that you have stats from Renatakis as well as the proc to use, where AoC is mostly just a proc to use. I have a 574 AoC and when conforming my haste level around having a 41 sec cd EB I almost always use EB within a 5-7 second window after it comes off cd. The issue of calculating value from the cd on EB with AoC is that you realistically wont be using it off cd to make the most of the reduction. The reduction on the FoF cd is of almost no value because of how little we actually use it every 25 seconds. You also have to take into account that the RPPM nature of Renatakis allows it to on average have a much higher uptime. RPPM procs benefit us more than ICD anyway due to giving us more procs to use TeB around for much higher damage phases.

[Totaltotemic]

You also have to take into account that the RPPM nature of Renatakis allows it to on average have a much higher uptime.

Absolutely false, it has the exact same uptime as AoC, TED, Haromm's, and Sigil of Rampage. More frequent but shorter procs are better for TEB, but it certainly does not have more uptime.

[Ayr]

So I'm willing to try this out ...

I have 3 Normal Trinkets at the moment. AoC, Haromm's, and Sigil of Rampage. My guess is that for me, AoC + Haromm's is best to go with. SoR sits idly in the bank ...

Am I doing this right? (I cannot wait to experiment with TED eventually ... )

[Razorlor]

Lol nice PvP gear. As probably the originator of the "AoC is a bunch of crap" theory, that's only in comparison with other SoO trinkets. It's generally better than any ToT trinket provided it's the same or higher item level.

I made sure I logged off in PvE gear -.-

Stupid armory.

[Totaltotemic]

So I'm willing to try this out ...

I have 3 Normal Trinkets at the moment. AoC, Haromm's, and Sigil of Rampage. My guess is that for me, AoC + Haromm's is best to go with. SoR sits idly in the bank ...

Am I doing this right? (I cannot wait to experiment with TED eventually ... )

SoR's passive has literally 0 value on single target, it's worse than any version of any other trinket from SoO.

[Ayr]

SoR's passive has literally 0 value on single target, it's worse than any version of any other trinket from SoO.

Great, glad to hear that consensus hasn't really changed at all.