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  1. #21
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    As for your weapon of choice, I don't know.... Wouldn't it more appropriate to go with the Kura Kura Kazrajins Skullcleaver given that it has Crit/Mastery on it? You can always reforge Crit into haste if you are low on Haste.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    As for your weapon of choice, I don't know.... Wouldn't it more appropriate to go with the Kura Kura Kazrajins Skullcleaver given that it has Crit/Mastery on it? You can always reforge Crit into haste if you are low on Haste.
    I looked at that when I was going over the reforging and profiles, Weapon as long as you stay away from Hit/Exp you could use any weapon you want. I decided to go with those because they are Red socket and offer agility bonus. The axe is blue socket while it still offers an agility bonus it will require a glinting or lightning gem which means more overage on hit.

    I don't think overall it will be a make or break but I do think the fist is the better choice unless you happen to be Orc. However I'll swap the weapons out and reforge and see if the values increase.

    This is where the numbers start to make a mess out of your brain, spreadsheet or napkin depending where the math is being calculated!

    So here are some images that show results of Maximum Mastery Minimum Haste and Crit using Axes, These values take all blue sockets into consideration as the Hit values are important. The Mastery/Crit/Haste values can be moved around Hit/Exp not so much.


    Dual Axes



    Dual Fists

    3776-3366 = 410 combined secondary stats, Dual Axes give you 410 more secondary stats. Dual Fists give you 320 more primary stat. I do believe that Agility will be at least .5 higher than Mastery if I'm correct on that you would need 480 additional Mastery for the Axes to be equal to the Fists.

    I think it could go either way, When you start looking at the overall picture of Agility gained on the full sets I'm pretty sure they will be close enough to each other that either could be used. As long as you don't go after the weapons with Hit & Expertise I think mixing and matching either of Fists or Axes will be fine.
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-02-17 at 06:59 PM.
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  3. #23
    Moderator Alysmera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    In 5.2, approximately how much better will Mastery be compared to Crit?

    Going off of the EJ thread, it seems like in 5.2 we want to stack Mastery after we reach a Haste level we're comfortable with.
    Yes, though in theory crit IS stronger.

    Especially with our 4set - we should be seeing a higher uptime of TeB, just because of how quickly we are able to generate stacks (after my testing, I found that I could hit 10 stacks in a very, very fast amount of time).

    Keep in mind that, due to the nature of our mastery, we are not necessarily gaining anything if we have a low uptime of Tigereye Brew buff. However, we will always have the same amount of crit, ignoring procs of course.

    @Reqfu: You are correct that agi is simming out to be the strongest for us. I think the major point of all the weapon choices we have are so that raids don't have the same crappy distribution we have this tier - for example, it took me until this past month before I was ever able to switch to DW, just because I had to compete with rogues, a BrM, and an enhancement shaman for fists. This should make it much easier for is to acquire the desired weapon setup. As far as fists vs. axes - keep in mind, too, that we scale the best with weapon damage. So if the question is between current tier fist and next tier axe or fist, the obvious choice will still be the highest ilevel. Overall, there shouldn't be too much difference between either setup.

    I personally will most likely be favoring the axes over the fists.
    Last edited by Alysmera; 2013-02-17 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    @Reqfu:
    Basically Axe or Fist you are going to be fine they are close enough I highly doubt you see a group of Fist users higher than Axe in fact I think you will see both relatively the same DPS value based on gear and skill.
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  5. #25
    I'm back on the WW side after a small hiatus (went back ret for BoP/Purity on progression). Is anyone else considering going Troll for 5.2? I'm just worried they will nerf the 5% beast damage before it goes live and I'll have just paid 15$ to look ugly. I guess Troll is technically better then Orc by about 500dps but still, god they need to change the Troll model lol

  6. #26
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    If they do nerf the buff, I would think that they would make it so that it would not work on Boss level mobs. Yes it would be useful for the adds on at least 4 of the bosses that I can think of off the the top of my head (Turtle adds, Bird adds, Iron Quan adds, and the T-Rex and bears on the Gurabashi arena boss; maybe the adds on the one-eye guy), but it should not affect bosses who are also beasts themselves.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-02-18 at 11:11 PM.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    So far GCs opinion has been that the racial isn't that big of a deal and there is no change coming. I think GC is a complete idiot and is clueless about DPS in this game from that statement alone. But we'll see if any changes are made I highly doubt it but I would wait until the week 5.2 launches before I pay to race change.
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  8. #28
    Yeah I'm really glad I'm not alliance :P By the way, good to see you on the WW side Req

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredz View Post
    Yeah I'm really glad I'm not alliance :P By the way, good to see you on the WW side Req
    Main swapping or just enjoying a very ell designed melee class that plays like Ret?
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  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredz View Post
    Main swapped
    Ahh ya more theory-craft for the WW side! Hows your feelings about 5.2 and the estimated WW dps?
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  12. #32
    I've been working more on BM on the PTR but from the times I tried it, it seemed pretty solid. Kinda sad that my 504 monk outdps my 510 ret

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Modified the original list to include what should be out BiS list including the best offset piece. Now the offset is obviously going to change if you get your hands on a TF piece that will be your offset regardless what it is. That being said Trinkets are going to make a difference on the BiS list as well. I'm not sold on the Rune being the BiS trinket yet it feels like it's too much of a gimmick trinket that may or may not be the case as more testing is done.

    The new edit gains us nearly 1000 extra Mastery over the old list while further balancing the more linear secondary stats of Haste and Crit.

    What I would like to get going discussion wise as we move close to the patch is the Valor Items and feelings around what pieces should be the best upgrades first?
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  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    unless you happen to be Orc.
    Orcs gain expertise from fist weaps too, or am I missing something? It says axe specialization in the spell book, but it's misleading.
    Last edited by Loaf Lord; 2013-02-27 at 03:38 AM.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    Orcs gain expertise from fist weaps too, or am I missing something? It says axe specialization in the spell book, but it's misleading.
    Axe Specialization
    Orc Racial
    Requires One-Handed Axes, Two-Handed Axes, Fist Weapons
    Expertise with Fist Weapons, Axes and Two-Handed Axes increased by 1%.

    It's going to be pretty hard to get rid of much more expertise if you plan to keep 4pc. I personally believe any guilds with progression in mind their Orcs will be Trolls and it won't matter as much.
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-02-27 at 04:18 AM.
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  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I punctuated my sentence wrong. I was saying yes, they do gain expertise from fist weapons. When I said "or am I missing something?" I meant is there something I'm missing as to why you said "I do think the fist is the better choice unless you happen to be Orc".

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I punctuated my sentence wrong. I was saying yes, they do gain expertise from fist weapons. When I said "or am I missing something?" I meant is there something I'm missing as to why you said "I do think the fist is the better choice unless you happen to be Orc".
    Oh I get what you were asking, I somewhat eliminated Orc because a BiS list of full Heroic gear imo generally also means that most Orcs will be Trolls it's very very hard to not make the move from Orc to Troll. At least during progression in an instance that is practically 100% beast. I should re-word that thank you.
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  18. #38
    On EJ they are giving a different stat priority than yours being Haste > Mastery > Haste over soft cap > Crit.

    They seem pretty confident about the haste soft cap (19,20%). I assume it s to remove FoF from the rotation.

    What do you think about this ?

  19. #39
    Yay Reqfu!

    I also changed from Ret to WW within the first month of MoP. It pleases me extremely that you have taken up the Mantle of WW theory Req as I have followed your Ret advice for years and look forward to being able to count on someone with a deep understanding of game mechanics to point us in the right direction for WW monks.

    Just be careful not to take the Anaxie road. While Anaxie is an amazing theorycrafter, it is frustrating when the go to guy gets Banned and you lose 2 weeks of being able to get some top-notch information.

    Good luck with 5.2 and I look forward to following your rise in the new Monk community!
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Eznor View Post
    On EJ they are giving a different stat priority than yours being Haste > Mastery > Haste over soft cap > Crit.

    They seem pretty confident about the haste soft cap (19,20%). I assume it s to remove FoF from the rotation.

    What do you think about this ?
    FoF is a pretty crappy skill IMO. Most T15 fights require you to constantly move, so a 3 second channel isn't going to cut it for melee.
    Last edited by NeverStop; 2013-02-27 at 08:40 AM.

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