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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Agree about the hit/exp, but its the BiS transmog option at least!
    Removed from wowhead and mmo db at least the links are dead. Didn't get a chance to see what it looked like but holy terrible stats

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:31 AM ----------

    So with the patch closing in I decided to take a closer look at the Neutral & Friendly gear as those will be the best you can get the first week. So ending T14 you most likely have a 502/509 Neck unless you spend valor upgrading it.

    The first item we can get our hands on being the Flanker's Battletags

    The neck is a solid early pickup but keep in mind that if you go into the 5.2 patch with at least 2500 Valor you should be able to grab 2 quick items. With friendly rep your choices are expanded quite a bit.

    Ring - Seal of the Shado-Pan Assault

    If you are using Regail's Band of the Endless this would most likely be the last item you would want to upgrade.

    Wrists - Willow-Weave Armbands are likely to be 2nd or 3rd upgrade. Keep in mind that the 2nd boss drops Bindings of Multiplicative Strikes

    Last but not least we have our Trinket option, Which this seems like a fairly solid trinket for those without current Heroic or Upgraded trinkets, Not sure how quick people will give this one a shot we sure as shit don't need the Hit it is loaded with but an upgrade is an upgrade if you don't have better

    Trinket - Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault


    Personally I'll be buying the Neck and probably Ring and then Bracers. It's hard to say for sure could get an item from a Boss early and not have to buy right away.
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-03-03 at 01:32 AM.
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  2. #62
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    What I'm wondering is how good the Talisman is compared to say a double upgraded Relic of Xuen (had lousy luck with Lei Shi's trinket :\ but did get the Heroic Elegon (double upgrade) trinket)

  3. #63
    Has anyone put any real work into rune of Re-Origination yet? I was testing out the 522 version while raid testing and it seemed to be very good. It adds some RNG to your rotation but rarely would I get to 20 stacks of TEB without a proc. When our gear was scaled to 532 Ilvl the other night I was reforged to about 7500 haste/8000 mastery and around 5k crit and was seeing some pretty huge RSK crits (700k+ range) while sitting at a near 160% increased damage TEB. I'm not a huge math guy, but all it really takes is one good rune proc that lines up with something else and possibly a potion to send you way out ahead of everyone else. And in the mean time, you're still doing pretty well because you've only sacrificed a few percent crit to get there.

  4. #64
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    You might want to check the topic about the trinket: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...of-origination

    In simcraft (compiled it myself, ptr T15H profile) I got a 5-10k dps increase by switching bloodlust talisman to rune, but there's still some optimizing to be done in the action list.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2013-03-03 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    You might want to check the topic about the trinket: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...of-origination

    In simcraft (compiled it myself, ptr T15H profile) I got a 5-10k dps increase by switching bloodlust talisman to rune, but there's still some optimizing to be done in the action list.
    For that 5-10K DPS increase how many hoops did you jump through?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 07:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    What I'm wondering is how good the Talisman is compared to say a double upgraded Relic of Xuen (had lousy luck with Lei Shi's trinket :\ but did get the Heroic Elegon (double upgrade) trinket)
    From the latest Trinket Spreadsheet the Talisman falls pretty short of current normal & heroic trinkets as well as DMC. It appears to be better than all LFR trinkets even if they are double upgraded. Here is a image of that spreadsheet that I just opened. If you want to more just download the spreadsheet.


    Pop Up Image
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-03-03 at 07:37 PM.
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  6. #66
    I'm kind of in the same position as you are Mihir. I've tested the trinket during raid testing and have got much better results with it than without it. I will likely pick up the first one since it looks like we're the only class who can benefit so much from it, and worst case scenario I'll switch it out on a couple fights where it might not be the best for. I found that having a weak aura setup for it so I can pop my TEB with .5 - 1s left makes things a lot easier. But it has to be obvious enough that you can still pay attention to it while on the move.

    I've tested it with a couple different setups, all having around 8100 mastery and then either 8k haste 4k crit or a more balanced crit and haste ratio. And it seems to me like 8k haste is very manageable now in raids so I'm not too sure why some are still thinking around 5-6k will be the max.

    I've seen some pretty good results with it, but as we saw this tier, theorycrafting and simcraft have been 2 completely different beasts, so I'll likely just find what I'm comfortable with and go with that until we can get some solid math that converts to in-game instead of just on paper.

  7. #67
    5.2 is out this week and i still dont know what i m gonna aim to after reaching my soft haste cap :/

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Eznor View Post
    5.2 is out this week and i still dont know what i m gonna aim to after reaching my soft haste cap :/
    And do you know what your soft haste cap is ?

  9. #69
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    For that 5-10K DPS increase how many hoops did you jump through?
    Mainly changing the tigereyebrew line to

    Code:
    tigereye_brew,if=ptr=1&buff.tigereye_brew_use.down&(buff.rune_of_reorigination.remains<=2|buff.tigereye_brew.react>=20)

  10. #70
    What would be interesting to know is whether Haste until the soft cap (where you feel you have a fluid rotation and no energy starvation) and Mastery are going to be worth more than 0.5 Agi (one can assume it's going to be the case with Rune of R-O, but in the meantime...), in which case I'd better stockpile some Yellow Gems tonight.

  11. #71
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Working on that right now

  12. #72
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Mainly changing the tigereyebrew line to

    Code:
    tigereye_brew,if=ptr=1&buff.tigereye_brew_use.down&(buff.rune_of_reorigination.remains<=2|buff.tigereye_brew.react>=20)
    So you think it will be that easy save TeB stacks until 2 seconds left on RoR then pop it? Outside of that everything will be exactly the same? What about the interaction with our second trinket.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  13. #73
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    It's very easy to do that yes. (I made a few big-ass weakauras with trinket procs and TEB stacks next to each other)



    Ofcourse you can't use a trinket that procs a secondary stat other than mastery or it will fuck up the Rune procs, so Talisman of Bloodlust is out of the question. Other than that, you could probably afford to use TEB at 15+ stacks when the other trinket procs (this is a wild guess tho, without any sims done on it).

    Ideally the 2nd trinket would be an on-use trinket with mastery or agility which you could sync with TEB, but I don't think there's any such trinket in MoP so far.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2013-03-04 at 04:19 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Removed from wowhead and mmo db at least the links are dead. Didn't get a chance to see what it looked like but holy terrible stats

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:31 AM ----------

    So with the patch closing in I decided to take a closer look at the Neutral & Friendly gear as those will be the best you can get the first week. So ending T14 you most likely have a 502/509 Neck unless you spend valor upgrading it.

    The first item we can get our hands on being the Flanker's Battletags

    The neck is a solid early pickup but keep in mind that if you go into the 5.2 patch with at least 2500 Valor you should be able to grab 2 quick items. With friendly rep your choices are expanded quite a bit.

    Ring - Seal of the Shado-Pan Assault

    If you are using Regail's Band of the Endless this would most likely be the last item you would want to upgrade.

    Wrists - Willow-Weave Armbands are likely to be 2nd or 3rd upgrade. Keep in mind that the 2nd boss drops Bindings of Multiplicative Strikes

    Last but not least we have our Trinket option, Which this seems like a fairly solid trinket for those without current Heroic or Upgraded trinkets, Not sure how quick people will give this one a shot we sure as shit don't need the Hit it is loaded with but an upgrade is an upgrade if you don't have better

    Trinket - Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault


    Personally I'll be buying the Neck and probably Ring and then Bracers. It's hard to say for sure could get an item from a Boss early and not have to buy right away.
    Thanks for the insight! Looks like I'll be trinket upgrading first, since neither Bottle of Stars or Terror in the Mists dropped for my raid. Ever. ><

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:33 PM ----------

    /looks at how much BiS gear is on Ra-den

    hahaha, is this Blizz's funny way of keeping us from that dreaded, theoretical maxima that was the reason for the RSK nerf?

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    It's very easy to do that yes. (I made a few big-ass weakauras with trinket procs and TEB stacks next to each other)



    Ofcourse you can't use a trinket that procs a secondary stat other than mastery or it will fuck up the Rune procs, so Talisman of Bloodlust is out of the question. Other than that, you could probably afford to use TEB at 15+ stacks when the other trinket procs (this is a wild guess tho, without any sims done on it).

    Ideally the 2nd trinket would be an on-use trinket with mastery or agility which you could sync with TEB, but I don't think there's any such trinket in MoP so far.
    Do you have a SC run with your changes?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 06:13 PM ----------

    I'm going to update the list, It seems the Rune of Re-Origination after quite a bit of testing could easily turn out to be BiS. Because the second trinket with all the Expertise will most likely not be used some of the items need to be shifted around just slightly to compensate for the gear.

    I'll get it updated in the next hour or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  16. #76
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    results of diff trinkets using T15H gear:

    Code:
    172181		no trinkets
    
    193559	21378	rune of re-origination hc (mastery)
    187589	15408	renataki's soul charm hc
    186163	13982	talisman of bloodlust hc
    185810	13629	bad juju hc
    185206	13025	bottle of infinite stars hc 2/2
    after rune, renataki's looks best altho it might be hard/impossible to gear around the enormous amount of expertise on it
    Last edited by Mihir; 2013-03-04 at 07:31 PM.

  17. #77
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    results of diff trinkets using T15H gear:

    Code:
    172181		no trinkets
    
    193559	21378	rune of re-origination hc (mastery)
    187589	15408	renataki's soul charm hc
    186163	13982	talisman of bloodlust hc
    185810	13629	bad juju hc
    185206	13025	bottle of infinite stars hc 2/2
    after rune, renataki's looks best altho it might be hard/impossible to gear around the enormous amount of expertise on it
    TBH it's harder to gear around not having it then it was having it lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  18. #78
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the list Mihir!

    In regards to weapon choices I notice you are rocking the crit/haste red gem on the bist list. I guess this will depend on racial but I thought the Kura Kura:http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96410 would be a good option becuase it is crit/mastery. Again, I am referencing this towards our Rune Reforging methods.

    Thoughts?
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Gulvan View Post
    Thanks for the list Mihir!

    In regards to weapon choices I notice you are rocking the crit/haste red gem on the bist list. I guess this will depend on racial but I thought the Kura Kura:http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96410 would be a good option becuase it is crit/mastery. Again, I am referencing this towards our Rune Reforging methods.

    Thoughts?
    the problem with kura kura is the blue gem. from what i can tell i beleive we will already be reforging away all of our hit and the blue gem does not help that

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulvan View Post
    Thanks for the list Mihir!

    In regards to weapon choices I notice you are rocking the crit/haste red gem on the bist list. I guess this will depend on racial but I thought the Kura Kura:http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96410 would be a good option becuase it is crit/mastery. Again, I am referencing this towards our Rune Reforging methods.

    Thoughts?
    The main question being answered, I certainly understand certain races will not need fists or axes mainly Orc but the Fists have Red Sockets which means more pure Agi and Agi will continue to be the top stat. However that being said I honestly don't think the weapon combination will matter that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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