Reqfu's MoP Windwalker BiS list & Theorycraft

[Alviarin]

I know it's asking a bit much, but I think a BiS List without items dropping from Ra-den would be a good idea for those of us with practically no chance to see him fall until later content is available. I noticed you listed alternatives for such "unobtainable" items, but I was wondering how it would pan out regarding Rune of RO reforging and Renataki's crapload of expertise, so maybe we'd need a separate list altogether ?

[gahddo]

RoR is still sitting strong, just with the new fotm spec being dw instead of 2h. I've got it at 210k with the next best, and 226k with. Latest iterations at making the trinket stupidly op:
http://pastebin.com/riFpqkRp

[Hinalover]

RoR is still sitting strong, just with the new fotm spec being dw instead of 2h. I've got it at 210k with the next best, and 226k with. Latest iterations at making the trinket stupidly op:
http://pastebin.com/riFpqkRp

I thought Chi Wave was supposed to be added into the rotation now that it no longer requires chi and does more damage than a Blackout kick. Granted they only fixed Chi Wave not doing damage into SimulationCraft AFTER the last release but still.

[gahddo]

I thought Chi Wave was supposed to be added into the rotation now that it no longer requires chi and does more damage than a Blackout kick. Granted they only fixed Chi Wave not doing damage into SimulationCraft AFTER the last release but still.

It is, just currently not working in the sim. Idk what that "fix" was awhile back but it seemingly did nothing. Going to poke eein until he fixes it hopefully. Adding chi wave also drastically lowers the haste soft cap because all the cap really is, is the point at which you are global locked. Chi wave = less free globals = lower haste required to hit cap. This is all assuming optimal FoF usage as well, of course. After I fixed the action list issue causing it to use FoF off cd, the value of its use went up drastically, which means it REALLY is optimal to use it. Uhhh nothing else is coming to mind right now. Oh, I updated simc and the action list to reflect the hotfix to the chi tracking bug.

[Deleted]

You guys are all excited about "oh my god mastery is so op !", but you really should make tests and simulations without all your T15 heroic gear and set bonuses. You'll see that without the set bonuses, without a high crit chance from gear, and without the Rune, mastery is not the go-to stat. And that's important, since when 5.2 patch goes live you won't get a full heroic gear in your mail box, you'll have your 500-510 gear, and for such a gear, i'm quite certain mastery isn't better than crit.

[Deleted]

Like I posted in the other thread, mastery is good as you make it. If you are smart and use TEB when it matters most, mastery will beat crit easily. If you're just concerned about target dummy dps, or not smart and dont know when to use TEB, then maybe you're right.

[gahddo]

You guys are all excited about "oh my god mastery is so op !", but you really should make tests and simulations without all your T15 heroic gear and set bonuses. You'll see that without the set bonuses, without a high crit chance from gear, and without the Rune, mastery is not the go-to stat. And that's important, since when 5.2 patch goes live you won't get a full heroic gear in your mail box, you'll have your 500-510 gear, and for such a gear, i'm quite certain mastery isn't better than crit.

Venyasure mathed out the exact formulas two months ago. We've been saying for two months that its not flat out "mastery > crit at 9500 haste," its actually "the level at which mastery > crit depends upon the other statistics you input, higher agility/crit increase the value of mastery, higher mastery increases the value of agi/crit." Just because some people choose to be intentionally obtuse doesn't mean the theorycrafting community is wrong. And, as Mihir said about, mastery allows you to game boss mechanics for further increased dps over crit.

[Deleted]

RoR is still sitting strong, just with the new fotm spec being dw instead of 2h. I've got it at 210k with the next best, and 226k with. Latest iterations at making the trinket stupidly op:
http://pastebin.com/riFpqkRp

Man, that's just silly. Makes me wonder how high this is compared to other classes.

[gahddo]

Man, that's just silly. Makes me wonder how high this is compared to other classes.

DW WW is the best spec in simc, t15h, without the trinket gaming. The meta still insanely benefits dw, so thats largely skewing things. Its upper middle of the pack in preliminary t15n testing, but thats without gaming RoR at all. That being said, I really want to go through and check the values for everything for WW, because they seem to be a lot stronger in sim than parses suggest even on live.

[chambersiziz]

So after looking at the trinkets i kinda had a weird idea, not sure if its been discussed cause i have not seen a lot of information on it but here it goes anyways;

What if you used Rune of Re-Organization and Talisman of Bloodlust so you were able to get a solid amount of haste and not need to worry about it anymore, then on your gear gem accordingly to have mostly mastery gems and agi mastery gems when you reach enough ( this is obviously with the 3k mastery raid buff ) to be ahead of both haste and crit.

When you think about it, these trinkets both give high agility passives so you would not be missing out on much of it with regemming hard into mastery and you would also not have to worry much about haste at all as the trinket itself gives you as much as you are going to need. Obviously you will reforge out of haste as much as possible since it will be very high, but I was mostly just wondering if anyone else has had this idea.

( I'm also basing this idea that the Talisman of Bloodlust works sort of like how Rags trinket worked with crit and it will always be up, I'm not 100% on that though )

[Deleted]

Mastery raid buff doesn't count towards the rune of re-origination proc. And giving up most of your passive haste rating doesnt seem like a good idea... but I guess you could run some sims on this to see if it would work.

[chambersiziz]

Mastery raid buff doesn't count towards the rune of re-origination proc.

hmm ok, it still might be able to work though with 320 mastery gems, and I'm also not 100% but does Talisman of Bloodlust work kind of like how the strength rag trinket worked and will be a very high uptime?

[Deleted]

results of diff trinkets using T15H gear:

172181		no trinkets

193559	21378	rune of re-origination hc (mastery)
187589	15408	renataki's soul charm hc
186163	13982	talisman of bloodlust hc
185810	13629	bad juju hc
185206	13025	bottle of infinite stars hc 2/2

after rune, renataki's looks best altho it might be hard/impossible to gear around the enormous amount of expertise on it

So it would be better to upgrade the bottle before 5.2 hits EU?

[Callimonk]

Yep! Makes me sad that one never, every dropped for me Oh, well! There's so many options this tier that it's not a big deal.

Edit: Wanted to add, does anyone have a spreadsheet of all agi drops (leather, rings, trinkets, AND weapons)? The laundry list is gone. /weeksbehind.

[Deleted]

does anyone know where the lei shi hc trinket stands compared to the nhc trinkets of throne of thunder ?

and is the rune nhc over bottle too ?

[Caltiom]

It is, just currently not working in the sim. Idk what that "fix" was awhile back but it seemingly did nothing. Going to poke eein until he fixes it hopefully. Adding chi wave also drastically lowers the haste soft cap because all the cap really is, is the point at which you are global locked. Chi wave = less free globals = lower haste required to hit cap. This is all assuming optimal FoF usage as well, of course. After I fixed the action list issue causing it to use FoF off cd, the value of its use went up drastically, which means it REALLY is optimal to use it. Uhhh nothing else is coming to mind right now. Oh, I updated simc and the action list to reflect the hotfix to the chi tracking bug.

I really fixed Chi Wave for you in http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...detail?r=15779 : It was scaling with SP not AP before, no wonder the dmg was off. And that's included in 520-1, so have fun!

[Requital]

does anyone know where the lei shi hc trinket stands compared to the nhc trinkets of throne of thunder ?

and is the rune nhc over bottle too ?

I would keep your eye on http://iamthewookie.com/monk/ that is where the trinket spreadsheet is and while it's not up to date right now I can imagine it being updated soon enough.

[Alviarin]

On subject of trinkets, I'm particularly disappointed by the really low RPPM trinkets like Renataki's. Its proc rate is really abysmal, sometimes not procing for extended periods of time (3+ min), although sometimes procing back to back, and then you gotta pray you were sitting on some TEB stacks...
Anyways, I miss the regularity of procs from my Relic of Xuen (and still love the H Bottle).

[Yvonnel]

Is there any info on http://www.wowdb.com/items/94522-tal...dropped-by-npc yet?

Is the proc reliable enough that you can drop haste from your reforges/gems

[Requital]

Is there any info on http://www.wowdb.com/items/94522-tal...dropped-by-npc yet?

Is the proc reliable enough that you can drop haste from your reforges/gems

That trinket imo is terrible for us for a number of reasons. The biggest being the fact that it leaves in with inconsistent haste levels and energy regen. If you plan haste builds around it when it's not up you have mediocre regen. If you don't build haste around it you can end up with a higher haste level where you start seeing weaker DPS returns and dead spots or being energy capped.

I would never get a trinket like this it won't allow consistency with energy regen.