Gandalf vs Dumbledore

[Laurcus]

Gandalf, although for some reason he almost never used any spells and liked to just bash things with a sword. Still a lightning bolt would kill as fast as a killing curse I suppose and HP wizards were just humans with magic powers. Even if there was a spell against that, it hits too fast.

Actually that got me thinking:P Why didn't any of the wizards in HP use guns? I think they could have fired them a lot faster than pointing a wand and saying magic words.

This is why Gandalf doesn't use magic very often. Quote from the Silmarillion.

"In the Undying Lands at about TA 1000, Manwë summoned a council of the Valar to send three messengers to Middle-earth. Two Maiar came, Curumo (Curunir or Saruman) sent by Aulë, and (Morinehtar) Alatar, sent by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin was, and he came, after returning from a journey. Manwë asked Olórin (Gandalf) if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin said that he was too weak, and he was afraid of Sauron. Manwë said that that was all the more reason to go, and that he commanded Olórin to go as the third. Then Varda said "Not as the third." Yavanna begged Curumo to take (Radagast) Aiwendil, and Alatar took (Rómestámo), Pallando as a friend. They were forbidden to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power. When Saruman, the greatest of the Wizards, disobeyed this injunction, he was cast from the order and banished from Valinor."

[Uzi]

But yeah, Gandalf doesn't do a whole lot of spectacular things in the LotR trilogy. In the first Hobbit movie he does more than the LotR trilogy combined though. Lots more blast waves and firebolts and such.

That's because even in the book, Gandalf was a simple wizard as we know them from Harry Potter, very similar to Dumbledore. It was a children's book after all.

It was only in the other books when Tolkien completely changed the course of the story of Middle Earth (hell, Sauron was actually retconned into the Hobbit by Tolkien).

[taurenburger]

Gandalf by far. He's much more powerful than he shows in the films. Dumbledore... Meh.

[Lizbeth]

This is why Gandalf doesn't use magic very often. Quote from the Silmarillion.

"In the Undying Lands at about TA 1000, Manwë summoned a council of the Valar to send three messengers to Middle-earth. Two Maiar came, Curumo (Curunir or Saruman) sent by Aulë, and (Morinehtar) Alatar, sent by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin was, and he came, after returning from a journey. Manwë asked Olórin (Gandalf) if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin said that he was too weak, and he was afraid of Sauron. Manwë said that that was all the more reason to go, and that he commanded Olórin to go as the third. Then Varda said "Not as the third." Yavanna begged Curumo to take (Radagast) Aiwendil, and Alatar took (Rómestámo), Pallando as a friend. They were forbidden to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power. When Saruman, the greatest of the Wizards, disobeyed this injunction, he was cast from the order and banished from Valinor."

He actually used magic a lot in the Hobbit and for stupid reasons or to show off in LotR so that doesnt explain much. For example when he deflected Legolas' arrow. He could have just said he was Gandalf instead of playing Saruman and concealing himself and used that deflect spell to save some lives in a battle instead. He also used chain lightning in the Hobbit to kill goblins at least once.

[Deathsknight]

He actually used magic a lot in the Hobbit and for stupid reasons or to show off in LotR so that doesnt explain much. For example when he deflected Legolas' arrow. He could have just said he was Gandalf instead of playing Saruman and concealing himself and used that deflect spell to save some lives in a battle instead. He also used chain lightning in the Hobbit to kill goblins at least once.

you are thinking of the movies he didn't actually deflect legolas's arrow in the books which are what matters. Most the other magic he uses isn't really all that powerful compared to what he truely is capable of(except vs the balrog) his true power he is not allowed to use otherwise he would of assraped all the way to mordor. Things like throwing firey pine cones in the hobbit don't really count as power.

[Redmage]

The problem is 99% of people have never read the books and don't understand that the wizards of the LOTR universe are literally immortal demi-gods left to watch and guide the mortal races of middle earth by the actual gods. This is why when Gandalf "dies" in the series he comes back, because the powers that be just brushed him off, gave him a promotion, and sent him back.

The movies do a bad job of portraying this, and actually make Gandalf look like a wimp at times (honestly this is the most glaring deviation from the books).

Also the reason Gandalf doesn't just throw around magic and smite everything is because hes not supposed to. The wizards were sent to guide the races of middle earth and are not supposed to directly interfere, a rule that Gandalf routinely bends anyway which is why he was always so at odds with the other wizards (especially Saruman).

In short, Dumbledore wouldn't have stood a chance, you could give him all three deathly hollows and Gandalf would wipe the floor with him.

[Skarsguard]

Gandalf for sure if you have read any of the LoTR's book you would understand.

[Dead_MAX]

Dumbledore has overpowered IK spell. It can't be resisted. It's dumb, i know...

[Ausr]

Dumbledore has overpowered IK spell. It can't be resisted. It's dumb, i know...

He wouldn't use it, however. Unless we're in a deathmatch type thing where anything stupidly goes and we just ignore character traits.

[Shiift]

Avada Kadavra v.s. setting pinecones on fire.. Yeah..
Maybe if dumbledore was in a pine forest.

[Laurcus]

Avada Kadavra v.s. setting pinecones on fire.. Yeah..
Maybe if dumbledore was in a pine forest.

Do I really have to explain this again?

"In the Undying Lands at about TA 1000, Manwë summoned a council of the Valar to send three messengers to Middle-earth. Two Maiar came, Curumo (Curunir or Saruman) sent by Aulë, and (Morinehtar) Alatar, sent by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin was, and he came, after returning from a journey. Manwë asked Olórin (Gandalf) if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin said that he was too weak, and he was afraid of Sauron. Manwë said that that was all the more reason to go, and that he commanded Olórin to go as the third. Then Varda said "Not as the third." Yavanna begged Curumo to take (Radagast) Aiwendil, and Alatar took (Rómestámo), Pallando as a friend. They were forbidden to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power. When Saruman, the greatest of the Wizards, disobeyed this injunction, he was cast from the order and banished from Valinor."

Gandalf was told not to use his powers. He holds back because his king told him to. Gandalf is also immortal, just like Sauron, because they're the same species.

[Lizbeth]

Gandalf was told not to use his powers. He holds back because his king told him to. Gandalf is also immortal, just like Sauron, because they're the same species.

If so, doesn't it mean Saruman was also the same species and more powerful than Gandalf? How did he just got stabbed to death by a common man then? I don't mean just the movie but it happened in the book as well.

[Comburo]

If so, doesn't it mean Saruman was also the same species and more powerful than Gandalf? How did he just got stabbed to death by a common man then? I don't mean just the movie but it happened in the book as well.

IIRC Saruman was stripped of most of his powers, because he joined forces with Sauron. Didnt Gandalf said something like he only has the power of his voice left?

[Uzi]

IIRC Saruman was stripped of most of his powers, because he joined forces with Sauron. Didnt Gandalf said something like he only has the power of his voice left?

Exactly that.

[wimbo125]

Gandalf would win, he's practically a god, he knows swordskills (always a plus), he can cast spells without saying a word, he fought a demon (and won!!) and he doesn't die, try to beat that Dumb-ledore

[Laurcus]

If so, doesn't it mean Saruman was also the same species and more powerful than Gandalf? How did he just got stabbed to death by a common man then? I don't mean just the movie but it happened in the book as well.

As others have explained, he only had the power of his voice. Even so, Saruman didn't die. His spirit, being separated from his physical body, (much like when Gandalf "died" against the Balrog) returned to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor. But Mandos denied him entry and his spirit was left naked, wandering and powerless.

[amisressy]

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[Ciddy]

The problem is 99% of people have never read the books and don't understand that the wizards of the LOTR universe are literally immortal demi-gods left to watch and guide the mortal races of middle earth by the actual gods. This is why when Gandalf "dies" in the series he comes back, because the powers that be just brushed him off, gave him a promotion, and sent him back.

The movies do a bad job of portraying this, and actually make Gandalf look like a wimp at times (honestly this is the most glaring deviation from the books).

Also the reason Gandalf doesn't just throw around magic and smite everything is because hes not supposed to. The wizards were sent to guide the races of middle earth and are not supposed to directly interfere, a rule that Gandalf routinely bends anyway which is why he was always so at odds with the other wizards (especially Saruman).

In short, Dumbledore wouldn't have stood a chance, you could give him all three deathly hollows and Gandalf would wipe the floor with him.

Pretty much this. Gandalf would destroy, and it wouldn't even be a fair fight. Aside from Gandalf's power in general (which is far, far greater than he lets on), he's shown that he can use various melee weapons pretty well too. He's got quite a few confirmed kills where there was no magic or any kind of sorcery involved, just his use of a weapon. Dumbledore is pretty powerful in the Harry Potter universe, but you can't even compare the two.