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  1. #101
    High Overlord Sononeknows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I don't think going for the EF breakpoint is worth it. If every fight had consistent raid damage (like garalon) so that every EF tick was used, maybe; but right now there are many fights where EF blanketing is honestly not the best way to go.
    Most if not all the new fights have consistent raid damage. Eternal Flame, essentially, grants 50seconds of healing. Eternal Flame for 30seconds, Illuminated Healing for 20seconds(EF Hot = 30secs, Illum H = 20secs. EF refreshes IH) Can you name one fight you won't take any damage in 50seconds? And obviously the time is reduced if someone gets wacked in the face and takes damage. Let's say you have 7 or 8 EF's rolling on tanks any melee, you can just do a Light of Damn to refresh their Illuminated Healing to full duration again(If really lucky to hit them, granted). Plus, even if you put EF on someone with full HP, the ticks will grant them the absorb and the beacon'd person still gets healed, albeit no absorb...that would be OP That's the idea basically. 1 more extra tick is worth it at this point IMO. But again, it's not a gospel, just my personal preference.

    Let's put it another way. With only 3506 haste, which is not a lot to ask given the current stats, gives you a whole extra tick from the 30second duration Eternal Flame gives you. Now let's put that EF on another 4 people; 5 in total. That's 5 whole ticks extra from so little haste. The more EF's, the more ticks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Also....that cloak!!
    Too bad we can't get it until 5.3, correct?
    I haven't actually checked up about it, but I assume 5.3 :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Nioso View Post
    What is every one else doing for this? I am feeling the same way about the T14 set bonus. I saw a significant drop in healing done after switching to a two piece T15 along with some non-tier off pieces. I am in this weird position of having some old raid finder pieces that create my T14 4 piece because my raid just never sees any conq token drops. One would think the stat gains from all of the T15 pieces (at a minimum of 1k gain in every stat) should more than make up for the that T14 EF blanketing. It did not for me and I am back to rocking two LFR T14 pieces ahha.
    Hahah, unlucky. Not sure about LFR pieces but my I'm still rocking it out in heroic 2/2 upgraded T14. My fellow holy pally friend in my guild has T15 2 set bonus and 3 off set pieces and he doesn't like it. With that said, I still wup his ass on healing when neither of us have special jobs to do. I'm going Beacon swapping + Eternal Flame route and he's going Light of Dawn route. I still would use Light of Dawn in certain cases such as Rampage but with using CD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nioso View Post
    What is your strategy for the beaconing? Have you just glyphed for no GCD and macroed it in before a specific helaing spell you cast? Obviously direct healing beacon does nothing, but if you have a few EF rolling and you only set it up to be done on a specific spell...?
    Yep, I have it glyped. I don't have it macroed. I indeed used to have it macroed to Flash of Light and Holy Radiance when the 4set pvp bonus was bugged and working with Eternal Flame but that's not the case anymore. Now I just cast it on someone, preferably someone on mid to high HP and then Holy Shock >Holy Light/Holy Radiance, depending on their health and the raid situation.
    It seems impossible to be able to look in two places at once but you get used to it. I have a Razer Naga and normal keyboard. I have Beacon of Light under 1(Keyboard) and Holy Shock under No.1(Mouse) and Lay on Hands version 2 under 2(Keyboard. My left hand only uses 1>6 for spells and cooldowns, whereas my right hand is using No.1> No.10 for healing spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nioso View Post
    Do you just watch frames more closely to figure out who is needing the beacon?
    Who is needing the beacon? Yeah..pretty much. If I know for a fact that this guy or this tank is going to be soaking or going to be taking damage, I beacon them preemptively. If I'm in a situation where Lay on Hands is not available and somebody is very low on hp and going to die in the next few seconds, I'd beacon that person plus Holy Shock them plus pop Divine Favor and hope lady luck is with me and they get a few ticks from all my Eternal Flames any holy shock crits. If they end up dying..blame the other healers I call this little macro my Lay on Hands version 2.
    #showtooltip Lay on Hands
    /cast Beacon of Light
    /cast Divine Favor
    /cast Holy Shock

    Quote Originally Posted by Nioso View Post
    It's a very foreign concept to move that beacon off of a tank, but that is the only way I see this tier bonus being of any value.
    You pretty much just summed up this Tier. It's weird and awkward. But if you want to min/max and get the most out of your healing, this appears to be the route.
    Last edited by Sononeknows; 2013-04-01 at 08:08 PM.
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sononeknows View Post

    Let's put it another way. With only 3506 haste, which is not a lot to ask given the current stat
    This is my biggest disagreement with your post.

    At my current level of gear (518 equipped) I only have 1735 haste. So in order to reach 3506 I would have to DOUBLE my current haste rating, which is essentially only accomplished by reducing mastery by the same amount. I currently have 7401 mastery, which means reaching that breakpoint means I lose 1,771 mastery or nearly 25% of my current mastery rating.

    That's a HUGE price to pay in my opinion, and, while I haven't looked into the numbers/theorycrafting, my gut tells me it's a net loss and, therefore, not worth the trade off for that extra tick. Obviously, there's a point where it would be worth it, if you were, for example, sitting at 3200 haste it would probably be worth it to move around some stats to get that tick, but I definitely don't think it's worth it for everybody.
    Last edited by Dubalicious; 2013-04-01 at 07:24 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    This is my biggest disagreement with your post.

    At my current level of gear (518 equipped) I only have 1735 haste. So in order to reach 3506 I would have to DOUBLE my current haste rating, which is essentially only accomplished by reducing mastery by the same amount. I currently have 7401 mastery, which means reaching that breakpoint means I lose 1,771 mastery or nearly 25% of my current mastery rating.

    That's a HUGE price to pay in my opinion, and, while I haven't looked into the numbers/theorycrafting, my gut tells me it's a net loss and, therefore, not worth the trade off for that extra tick. Obviously, there's a point where it would be worth it, if you were, for example, sitting at 3200 haste it would probably be worth it to move around some stats to get that tick, but I definitely don't think it's worth it for everybody.
    I have to agree, it doesn't sound like a lot but compared to the benefit you get from that amount of mastery, its nearing the 8/9% mark which is a lot

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Sononeknows View Post
    Yep, I have it glyped. I don't have it macroed. I indeed used to have it macroed to Flash of Light and Holy Radiance when the 4set pvp bonus was bugged and working with Eternal Flame but that's not the case anymore. Now I just cast it on someone, preferably someone on mid to high HP and then Holy Shock >Holy Light/Holy Radiance, depending on their health and the raid situation.
    It seems impossible to be able to look in two places at once but you get used to it. I have a Razer Naga and normal keyboard. I have Beacon of Light under 1(Keyboard) and Holy Shock under No.1(Mouse) and Lay on Hands version 2 under 2(Keyboard. My left hand only uses 1>6 for spells and cooldowns, whereas my right hand is using No.1> No.10 for healing spells.
    I'll have to get better about tunneling on heals ahaha

  5. #105
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I don't think going for the EF breakpoint is worth it. If every fight had consistent raid damage (like garalon) so that every EF tick was used, maybe; but right now there are many fights where EF blanketing is honestly not the best way to go.

    Also....that cloak!!
    Too bad we can't get it until 5.3, correct?
    Can you name a particular fight or fights where EF blanketing isn't that best way to go? I can't think of a single fight where there isn't raid damage going out every few seconds or so. Blanketing does the just ramp up hps. It creates a small bubble that smooths out raid damage and makes it less spikey, funnels heals to the beaconed target and gives them a steady stream of hots, and the initial heal provides a very strong single target heal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    This is my biggest disagreement with your post.

    At my current level of gear (518 equipped) I only have 1735 haste. So in order to reach 3506 I would have to DOUBLE my current haste rating, which is essentially only accomplished by reducing mastery by the same amount. I currently have 7401 mastery, which means reaching that breakpoint means I lose 1,771 mastery or nearly 25% of my current mastery rating.

    That's a HUGE price to pay in my opinion, and, while I haven't looked into the numbers/theorycrafting, my gut tells me it's a net loss and, therefore, not worth the trade off for that extra tick. Obviously, there's a point where it would be worth it, if you were, for example, sitting at 3200 haste it would probably be worth it to move around some stats to get that tick, but I definitely don't think it's worth it for everybody.
    I am going to agree. 1 extra tick for well over 1k mastery is just a tad too steep.

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  6. #106
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Can you name a particular fight or fights where EF blanketing isn't that best way to go? I can't think of a single fight where there isn't raid damage going out every few seconds or so. Blanketing does the just ramp up hps. It creates a small bubble that smooths out raid damage and makes it less spikey, funnels heals to the beaconed target and gives them a steady stream of hots, and the initial heal provides a very strong single target heal.

    I am going to agree. 1 extra tick for well over 1k mastery is just a tad too steep.
    Mageara, Jin-ku are examples. Damage comes in big bursts over being constant consistent damage going out all the time. I don't need an explanation of what EF blanketing is and does. I usually weave in a mix of EF blanketing and then LoD for high burst phases. I would rather have mastery covering all my heals over enough haste to get add tics to EF that will likely overheal anyways. Especially as others have pointed out I also would be giving up 1721 mastery to get to that breakpoint, so the extra tic to apply more mastery would kind of be a waste considering the amount I lost. Fights I have found being completely ideal for simply EF blanketing are Horridon, Primordious, and Twins.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-04-02 at 03:03 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Mageara, Jin-ku are examples. Damage comes in big bursts over being constant consistent damage going out all the time.
    So you don't think having a bubble on everyone is useful when theres an almost constant income of raid damage, or heavy spike damage on 1 person?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    So you don't think having a bubble on everyone is useful when theres an almost constant income of raid damage, or heavy spike damage on 1 person?
    absolutely not, the only reason to EF blanket for the first 75% of the fight is because theres so little else to heal you'd be sitting at 100% mana anyway. ef blanketting during periods of no damage is ridiculously inefficient. Lets say you have 30% mastery, and somehow magically 100% of the healing to the beacon is effective (which NEVER happens) you're still only doing (30 + 50 / 180) 44.4% ( repeating of course) of the HPM you *could* be doing. And that's a theoretical maximum; I'd guess the real number is closer to 20%.

    I don't think there is a single fight this tier where you would be wise to EF blanket the whole time. The end of lei shen, fire phases on consorts, etc, sure, but absolutely not the whole fight.

  9. #109
    Well of course you don't want to EF the entire time, but during P1 if the other healers can hold it you're better off EF blanketing along with saving 4/5 HP for P2

  10. #110
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    So you don't think having a bubble on everyone is useful when theres an almost constant income of raid damage, or heavy spike damage on 1 person?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Well of course you don't want to EF the entire time, but during P1 if the other healers can hold it you're better off EF blanketing along with saving 4/5 HP for P2
    Did you miss the part where I said I weaved in EF blanketing while LoD during Big bursts? I never at any point said never EF blanket. Do I do the full on EF blanketing playstyle where you pick up divine purpose and blanket all the time? No.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-04-02 at 05:40 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Did you miss the part where I said I weaved in EF blanketing while LoD during Big bursts? I never at any point said never EF blanket.
    Mine was more aimed at dennis, I thought that was obvious by the lack of quote

  12. #112
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Mine was more aimed at dennis, I thought that was obvious by the lack of quote
    That response was for your question directed to me as well. I quoted both.

  13. #113
    In your opinion, how is t14 better than t15, i mean, i'm 10 ilvl behind all my mates, with lfr(1) and normal(3) t14 and we 2 heal whenever we can. Should i switch to t15 ? I've access to the 4 part easily with 1 part hm.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Izilol View Post
    In your opinion, how is t14 better than t15, i mean, i'm 10 ilvl behind all my mates, with lfr(1) and normal(3) t14 and we 2 heal whenever we can. Should i switch to t15 ? I've access to the 4 part easily with 1 part hm.
    If you can do a flat swap from 4 piece to 4 piece then do that

  15. #115
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Mageara, Jin-ku are examples. Damage comes in big bursts over being constant consistent damage going out all the time. I don't need an explanation of what EF blanketing is and does. I usually weave in a mix of EF blanketing and then LoD for high burst phases. I would rather have mastery covering all my heals over enough haste to get add tics to EF that will likely overheal anyways. Especially as others have pointed out I also would be giving up 1721 mastery to get to that breakpoint, so the extra tic to apply more mastery would kind of be a waste considering the amount I lost. Fights I have found being completely ideal for simply EF blanketing are Horridon, Primordious, and Twins.
    Mageara is a prime candidate for EF blanketing. You want to pre-emptively start rolling hots and creating bubbles prior to the big burst as well as trickeling hots to the tank to smooth out spike damage during tanking and spank phase. This will amount to a lot of overhealing but I don't understand the huge concern about it. If you aren't running oom, why does it matter? If you do it to simply pad meters, then ya, scumbag healer but the benefits of pre-emptive healing far outweigh the "fear" of overhealing. Ji-Kuhn is a meh fight for blanketing. It's nice during Quils and alright for the spikey tank damage at times but I'll agree that it isn't the best fight for it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Izilol View Post
    In your opinion, how is t14 better than t15, i mean, i'm 10 ilvl behind all my mates, with lfr(1) and normal(3) t14 and we 2 heal whenever we can. Should i switch to t15 ? I've access to the 4 part easily with 1 part hm.
    T14 4-piece is very strong considering the holy power generation. Let's say that you have 4-piece T15 and I still have 4-piece T14. For every 2 Holy Shock you cast, I can cast 3. So, you cast 36 HSs, I cast 54 (hypothetically of course). That is a lot of HoPo for EFs/LoD, a lot of Daybreak healing, and a lot of Infusion of Light procs. But, the set bonus can't last forever. Eventually, the stats lost from not picking up T15 will net less healing overall. You'll have more spirit for regen which leads to casting bigger spells. Bigger spells lead to bigger mastery bubbles. More secondary stats further increase those bubbles as well as more haste/crit for procs and such.

    Imo, Blizzard needs to cut Holy Shock CD to 5s baseline. Bumping back up to 6s again almost makes healing feel clunky.

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  16. #116
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    T14 4-piece is very strong considering the holy power generation. Let's say that you have 4-piece T15 and I still have 4-piece T14. For every 2 Holy Shock you cast, I can cast 3. So, you cast 36 HSs, I cast 54 (hypothetically of course). That is a lot of HoPo for EFs/LoD, a lot of Daybreak healing, and a lot of Infusion of Light procs. But, the set bonus can't last forever. Eventually, the stats lost from not picking up T15 will net less healing overall. You'll have more spirit for regen which leads to casting bigger spells. Bigger spells lead to bigger mastery bubbles. More secondary stats further increase those bubbles as well as more haste/crit for procs and such.

    Imo, Blizzard needs to cut Holy Shock CD to 5s baseline. Bumping back up to 6s again almost makes healing feel clunky.
    T14 4 piece is very strong for several reasons - the HP generation as well as the incredible movement potential - not just from the Holy Shocks, but each Holy Shock can then proc an Infusion which allows for easier HR for even MORE HP and movement ability. Hence why someone alluded to it being almost "required" for Durumu at some point.

    I agree with you because I wasn't able to get the 4pc in T14 (I joined my current guild quite late in the tier and started raiding quite late in it) regarding the 5 second HS, but then you have to look at *cough* PvP ramifications. If there were a way to make it a PvE bonus (or, as much as I hate to say this, just nerf the T14 so it's no longer required to be competitive) I would be down.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Mageara is a prime candidate for EF blanketing.
    While this may be true, LoD is going to *save more lives* than EF during the high damage phase. Dumping HoPo on EF prior to the high damage phase certainly makes sense, but I definitely wouldn't do something like use HA to EF blanket prior to the AoE rather than using it to get as many LoD's off during the high damage phase.

  18. #118
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    T14 4 piece is very strong for several reasons - the HP generation as well as the incredible movement potential - not just from the Holy Shocks, but each Holy Shock can then proc an Infusion which allows for easier HR for even MORE HP and movement ability. Hence why someone alluded to it being almost "required" for Durumu at some point.

    I agree with you because I wasn't able to get the 4pc in T14 (I joined my current guild quite late in the tier and started raiding quite late in it) regarding the 5 second HS, but then you have to look at *cough* PvP ramifications. If there were a way to make it a PvE bonus (or, as much as I hate to say this, just nerf the T14 so it's no longer required to be competitive) I would be down.
    Movement is an excellent point to bring up. Great addition! Less time casting = arriving to your destination faster which, in turns, allows you to stop and continue healing.

    PvP always causes problems with PvE unfortunately. I don't think that 1s off the CD would cause a PvP imbalance but meh. We will probably never know.

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  19. #119
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Movement is an excellent point to bring up. Great addition! Less time casting = arriving to your destination faster which, in turns, allows you to stop and continue healing.
    Not only that, but Durumu is huge. Because of the stutterstepping, it's either an instant heal or an infusion HR, it's nearly impossible for me to hardcast a 2.0 second HR. So the shorter cooldown means 1) less HR's are needed to get HP and heal the group, and 2) I have more chances at infusion procs which allow me to get HR's off if I need to - I think this is why it was mentioned as nearly "mandatory" for the fight.

    We probably won't be hitting it soon, but I've been trying to get my guild to go back into T14 heroics (or even a 496 leg would do but obviously given the fight I'd like to lose as little ilvl as possible) for this reason.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    Imo, Blizzard needs to cut Holy Shock CD to 5s baseline. Bumping back up to 6s again almost makes healing feel clunky.
    I fully agree. After having T14, I find myself mashing my Holy Shock button because it always seemed to be off CD. 6s HS means I get to stand around for a second or so after my two filler Holy Light casts to keep it on CD. It's not large enough of a gap to warrant a third HL, but it's too large of a gap to make the healing feel like it's on a smooth rotation.

    Obviously it is situational, but what do you see yourselves favoring as far as primary cast once in Tier 15 4 piece (DL vs FoL)? Keeping a few 3 HoPo EF rolling and having the quicker cast Flash of Light is probably the stronger rotation considering mana consumption is becoming less of an issue. I see Divine Light use occurring only when Infusion of Light is up or a single target is taking large damage.

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