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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    No. Bad shaman. NEVER multidot. Not even when the second mob is going to last long enough. Having to use that many GCDs and shock CDs to refresh flame shock even twice is still a DPS loss due to having to cut out fulminations. Especially if you have the 4pc.
    this changes for 5.2, since the set bonus will be change to more lava surges = more ascendance, it will be worth keeping 2-3 FS up if they can hit 20s+ of their duration.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 03:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenvon View Post
    Quick idea springs to mind.
    Redesign Lava Surge.

    Lava Surge:
    When your period Flame Shock ticks CRIT you have a 100% chance to reset the cooldown on Lava Burst and make it an instant cast.

    There we go. Crit and haste scaling for Lava Surge, and it also makes crit slightly better for Elemental.. Win/win. Then they just got to tune how often Flame Shock ticks to make sure we arent gimped by our insanely low crit chance atm (Im rocking ~11% selfbuffed in ilvl 496 atm).
    pointless, atm most ele has too low crit, and more haste already makes you get more lava surges as it makes FS tick faster, i see no real reason to redesign something that works fine as it is.

  2. #62
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    this changes for 5.2, since the set bonus will be change to more lava surges = more ascendance, it will be worth keeping 2-3 FS up if they can hit 20s+ of their duration.[COLOR="red"]
    Indeed, it does. Especially since we'll have way fewer fulminations with the loss of the T14 4pc.
    Last edited by Eruionmel; 2013-02-19 at 05:38 AM.
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  3. #63
    Any thoughts on the change for UF increasing LvB damage by 10%? Will it be worth taking over EB now?
    Last edited by Griffeth; 2013-02-19 at 05:15 PM. Reason: Meant LvB and not LB

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    Any thoughts on the change for UF increasing LB damage by 10%? Will it be worth taking over EB now?
    My guess is no, and I'm fairly sure that PE is going to be king next tier. UE will be better for movement than EB, but worse for movement than PE, and I'm pretty sure the huge buff to PE will also allow it to pull ahead on single target.

    Hell, I've been using PE > EB this entire tier already, so this is just icing on the cake for me. :P
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  5. #65
    Meant Lava burst not Lightning bolt, sorry bout that

  6. #66
    Stood in the Fire Funky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Shaman
    Shamanism increases Lightning Bolt damage by 70%, up from 50%.
    Elemental Focus now increases spell damage by 15%, up from 10%.
    Called it. I don't think this is going to be that much better.
    Last edited by Funky; 2013-02-20 at 06:32 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Shaman
    Shamanism increases Lightning Bolt damage by 70%, up from 50%.
    Elemental Focus now increases spell damage by 15%, up from 10%.
    Called it. I don't think this is going to be that much better.
    Think about all the other buffs we've already gotten, though. Certainly any fight where we can cleave (and I think there's going to be a few of them), we're likely to absolutely crush every other DPS and finally gives tanks a run for their money. Our multidotting is now actually a DPS increase, and even on single target we've gotten some very nice buffs (PE does a flat 20% more damage, if I remember, which means fire ele will be able to pull upwards of 50k DPS while up, and there have been a couple of other small ones).

    I'm honestly not going to be surprised if Ele comes out on top of the pack this tier, potentially even enough to warrant some mid-tier nerfs (especially our cleave damage; I don't see this CL change sticking AT ALL).
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  8. #68
    I think with the changes to Unleash Elements and Shamanism (80% increased dmg from lightning bolt), we will soon hit a point where LvB is moot because Blizz thinks the way of buffing shamans is just giving us better LBs.

    I am frankly disappointed. I don't think those changes will get us anywhere near the top of the pack, considering most other specs also got buffs. All around we'll stay bottom, Blizzard are notorious for being bad at balancing elemental shamans.

  9. #69
    What about adding some thing to either lava burst or lightning bolt that has a similar effect as the tier 8 4set bonus?

    (4) Set: Your critical Strikes from Lightning Bolt cause the target to take nature damage equal to 8% of the Lightning Bolt's damage over 4 sec sec.

    Edit: with lava burst it would be a % rather than on crit

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Phailzôr View Post
    I think with the changes to Unleash Elements and Shamanism (80% increased dmg from lightning bolt), we will soon hit a point where LvB is moot because Blizz thinks the way of buffing shamans is just giving us better LBs.
    I don't get why people keep saying this. LvB always crits, has a shorter cast time and procs instant casts. They'd have to massively buff LB for it to catch up.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Slappyjoe View Post
    I don't get why people keep saying this. LvB always crits, has a shorter cast time and procs instant casts. They'd have to massively buff LB for it to catch up.
    Pretty much this.
    5.1 sims have...
    Lava Burst 180k dpe
    Lightning Bolt 65k dpe
    EB/Shocks 125k dpe

    Going from a 50% shamanism (150% of normal damage) to 70% shamanism (170% of normal) is only a 14% increase to Lightning Bolt. Far from the 100% increase LB would have needed to pass up EB/Shocks, and even farther from Lava Burst.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    FE was a fix for dps, but a really bad one.

    On any Encounter with more than a single mob to hit, this thing was a giant Pain back then, though the AI is better now i don't want that my Dps relies on a Guardian.

    yes, isnt that what we are trying to do, FIX our dps? I loved the FE now its weak and yeah...

  13. #73
    Stood in the Fire
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    I have started to hate EB for some reason, nice to be trying PE out.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    I have started to hate EB for some reason, nice to be trying PE out.
    without EB we will have even less buttons to use (if PE becomes the talent to go for max dps). I hate the fights where I have to go PE insted of EB as I am missing buttons to use - the rotation feels like there is basicly no rotation at all and I am in mindless state rotating my mousewheal :-(

  15. #75
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    GC we've still yet to get a clear cut answer on whether or not Lava Burst will scale (i know you hate that word, sorry) with crit rating (IE More crit chance = higher damage like Soul Fire/Chaos Bolt). Also, Bombay or Tanka Rey?
    You used the word correctly, so no worries. What makes me reach for the Bombay are vague concerns about "scaling issues" masquerading DPS buff requests. (If you're worried about your DPS, just be up front and say you're worried about your DPS.)

    We are unlikely to add extra crit damage to Lava Burst given the amount of time we have left for testing because we don't feel we can accurately predict what it would do to gear or rotational choices, and there is a PvP burst risk as well. We're not against the idea in theory and might try it at a future date once we have more information about what the 5.2 changes do to Elemental overall.
    From the MMO-Champ front page.

    I dont see why they would be afraid of our PvP burst if LvB scaled with crit.... Sure if you let a Shaman freecast with Ascendance up, the burst will be really strong, but it's not like we have Shockwave or any other instant stuns (cap totem requires 3sec charge up & positioning) that will make it unavoidable for players. They can LoS, interrupt, silence, stun us, fear us, etc.. There's plenty of room to escape and survive.
    Compare that to a warrior popping reck + banner + avatar while you're in a 4sec shockwave into a fear.. Both instant CC's which you cant do much to avoid (tremor totem the fear, but still means you'll eat the fear and get interrupted if you try to cast anything) while the warrior gets to nuke you.
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  16. #76
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    So after some testing on the PTR, I can say that the buffs aren't quite as big as I was hoping. I went from about 89k unbuffed on the dummy on live to about 94k unbuffed on the dummy with my live gear (T14, not T15) It's a nice increase (~6%), but nothing super amazing. Our AoE, on the other hand, is fucking stupid, lol. I was able to maintain a little over 180k casting nothing but unglyphed CL with 0 buffs and 0 CDs. With ascendance and totem, or with 5 targets, our AoE/cleave is going to be mindfuck high, lol.

    I also did some preliminary testing with multidotting two dummies and running the same rotation that I did with single target, and it was basically identical DPS to my single target. So it's not a DPS loss to multidot, but it's not much of a gain. This was with the 4pc T15, by the way, both the ST test and the multidot. I didn't test with 3+ targets, but I'm suspicious that multidotting three or more will begin to be a DPS loss, same as multidotting two was in 5.0-5.1.
    Last edited by Eruionmel; 2013-02-23 at 02:35 AM.
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  17. #77
    If only every fight was a full cleave the whole time, then we could really be competitive with other classes! This makes me sad

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    If only every fight was a full cleave the whole time, then we could really be competitive with other classes! This makes me sad
    All may not be lost. I don't think the Shamanism changes were live yet. So we've got an ~14% LB increase coming. It won't be a lot, but it'll be something.

    Oh, and even MORE CL damage, lmao. Our AoE is going to blow everyone else to fucking hell, lol. I wonder if we're going to shit on people in RBGs because of it.

    Edit: Oh, and the Elemental Focus buff definitely wasn't live yet, and that's 5% increase for a very large percentage of our damage (I'd guess close to 90%). I can still see us being very high for single target. We'll have to see how it plays out once the next PTR test hits. I'll post results when I can.
    Last edited by Eruionmel; 2013-02-22 at 04:57 AM.
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  19. #79
    If you need some help testing on the PTR let me know. I know I only have starter gear but I will do what I can.

  20. #80
    If our AoE is that retarded, it makes me wonder if we'll end up being insanely sought out for challenge mode runs. I have only completed one thus far (Scarlet Halls) and managed to pull ~68k on our only full clear (silver). Seems like getting through trash mobs is the part that takes the most time, least from my very limited experience.

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