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  • Orcs

    75 26.41%
  • Forsaken

    209 73.59%
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  1. #1

    Who's more "evil" as of now: Orcs or the Forsaken?

    While the Forsaken are certainly one of the more sinister races out there, it seems lately the Orcs in the Horde are doing ten times the worse than the Forsaken ever did.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    Well I don't claim to know alot about the lore, so don't rage me if what I say seems wrong to you, but from where I'm sitting, I'd say the forsaken are more evil.

    It seems to me that most of the forsaken are well aware of what they are doing, and just do it anyway, because they want to, not all of them, but most are fully behind sylvanas without question and they wouldn't really have it any other way.

    The orcs are kind of a different situation, they are bound by oath to a mad man, they follow their orders because of their code of honour and the oath they took to their warchief, sure garrosh has some supporters, but more and more orcs will realise this is not what they want and they will turn against garrosh.

    I can't see the forsaken turning against sylvanas though, so that in my mind makes the forsaken inherently more evil than the orcs.

  4. #4
    Warchief Velthy's Avatar
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    There are good and bad orcs and good and bad undeads in game. You cant judge the whole race, same as you cant judge the fraction.

    Signature made by my best friend Aryiana.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.
    you cant say the forsaken arent evil. the whole "lordaeron was theres when they were alive" excuse doesnt cut it as soon as they started moving into hillsbrad arathi gilneas and alterac.

    the forsaken delight in torture and causing pain and are all mentally unstable and damaged.

    they as a whole ARE evil that is an indisputable fact.

    now whether they are inherently evil or if its because they are all brain damaged is disputable
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    Well I don't claim to know alot about the lore, so don't rage me if what I say seems wrong to you, but from where I'm sitting, I'd say the forsaken are more evil.

    It seems to me that most of the forsaken are well aware of what they are doing, and just do it anyway, because they want to, not all of them, but most are fully behind sylvanas without question and they wouldn't really have it any other way.

    The orcs are kind of a different situation, they are bound by oath to a mad man, they follow their orders because of their code of honour and the oath they took to their warchief, sure garrosh has some supporters, but more and more orcs will realise this is not what they want and they will turn against garrosh.

    I can't see the forsaken turning against sylvanas though, so that in my mind makes the forsaken inherently more evil than the orcs.
    They don't question Sylvanas because they owe her everything. She is to the Forsaken as Thrall is to the Orcs.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They don't question Sylvanas because they owe her everything. She is to the Forsaken as Thrall is to the Orcs.
    I understand what you're saying, but to me, that excuse doesn't cut it when you're doing horribly depraved acts just because you owe someone something. Unless the forsaken decide to overthrow sylvanas then I would consider them slightly worse than the orcs, I know putress rebelled against sylvanas but he was hardly an improvement :P

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you cant say the forsaken arent evil. the whole "lordaeron was theres when they were alive" excuse doesnt cut it as soon as they started moving into hillsbrad arathi gilneas and alterac.

    the forsaken delight in torture and causing pain and are all mentally unstable and damaged.

    they as a whole ARE evil that is an indisputable fact.

    now whether they are inherently evil or if its because they are all brain damaged is disputable
    Their sole purpose was revenge against the LK. Once that happened, their sole purpose is survival. Sylvanas saw a vision of the future where they were invaded and exterminated by the Alliance. They are just securing their territory to ensure their survival.

    Their methods may be sinister and taken too far on the torture, but they are doing it for self preservation.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-15 at 10:20 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I reject the premise of the question. Neither are evil.
    I must agree with this.

    However, if any playable race in the game is pushing that line, it would probably be the Forsaken. Orcs love battle, but for the most part are honorable about it. Every race has its bad eggs, but the Forsaken as a whole seem to be slowly getting more and more offensive as time goes on. They could very quickly become a new Scourge with a Lich Queen, if not kept in check. They always give off the vibe of being up to something behind the scenes. As it stands now though, they have yet to really carry out whatever their mysterious and possibly sinister goals are, so it would be unfair to call them evil just yet. They may simply want to be left alone by the Alliance.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Their sole purpose was revenge against the LK. Once that happened their sole purpose is survival. Sylvanas saw a vision of the future where they were invaded and exterminated by the Alliance. They are just securing their territory to ensure their survival.

    Their methods may be sinister and taken too far on the torture, but they are dong it for self preservation.
    sylvanas didnt see any vision that was just her saying things. had sylvanas not betrayed the alliance in the first place they wouldnt need to torture and kill for survival

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 05:24 AM ----------

    it also doesnt matter whether or not they are doing it out of survival it doesnt change the fact that the WAY they are surviving is evil. is every forsaken evil? no but as a whole the faction is
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    sylvanas didnt see any vision that was just her saying things. had sylvanas not betrayed the alliance in the first place they wouldnt need to torture and kill for survival
    The Val'kyr showed her what would happen if she killed herself. The Forsaken are exterminated by the Alliance after Garrosh recklessly abuses their forces.

    "But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite." Sylvanas is no longer using them offensively as a weapons, she is using them defensively for survival.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-15 at 10:45 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Sky High's Avatar
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    both aren't "inherently" evil. hell orcs may be brutish and violent but they do it out of a sense to protect their own. Forsaken more or less the same but the methods are pretty much night and day...well they were anyway...fucking Garrosh.

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    The Forsaken are more evil.

    As has been said, not all of the Orcs back Garrosh, and EVEN GARROSH has said "There is killing, and then there is murder" in regards to Ishi proposing they relinquish their honor and mindlessly slaughter innocent people while under the influence of the Sha.

    Meanwhile, we have the forsaken indiscriminately using the plague against towns with the aim of either killing all the residents or keeping them as shambling undead monstrosities. Sylvannas fully condones these activities (and if she doesn't, she sure as hell isn't too inclined on ending them,) and almost all of the forsaken, save for perhaps the ones in the argent dawn, support her fully.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #14
    Orcs are no longer under the demonic influence and can't be considered evil. They are savage and brute, but neither their motives nor their actions are evil. If anything the Orcish leadership could be marked as slightly evil due to some actions it orchestrated, but the whole race cannot be evil. For me, they are sitting somewhere near neutral on the alignment scale (probably chaotic neutral).

    Forsaken are another category. They are definitely more evil then Orcs. They are not 100% evil, but if I had to use only one world to describe them, it would be definitely evil and not neutral. Their motives are not evil, but their ways to implement them sometimes are. Self-preservation is OK, but the end cannot justify the means. I could somehow understand their claim to lands of Lordaeron kingdom, because noone else lives there, but their expansion to lands of other human kingdoms cannot be justified under "we used to be human". Well, the other kingdoms (besides Gilneas) have no official structure, but peacefull settlers were living there. The were no threat and still were slaughtered. And no, "we need bodies to procreate" is not a valid justification...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    And no, "we need bodies to procreate" is not a valid justification...
    It works for parasitoid organisms.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Velthy View Post
    There are good and bad orcs and good and bad undeads in game. You cant judge the whole race, same as you cant judge the fraction.
    I think you mean SHOULDN'T, because people can, they do it all the time.
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
    ╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  17. #17
    Garrosh is pretty malevolent but not all Orcs blindly follow his instructions, they need to be coerced.
    Sylvanas is also fairly malevolent and I have yet to find a Forsaken NPC in game that objects to this.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    the forsaken delight in torture and causing pain and are all mentally unstable and damaged.
    Hey wait there, they are definitely not mentaly unstable.

  19. #19
    Forsaken. Chemical warfare, killing civilians, attacking neutral kingdoms, forcefully raising people from the dead, etc.

    Orcs are more just angry and stupid than anything. Orcs have much angst and testosterone.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    At the core of it the orcs are just looking for somewhere better then the middle of a desert so they can prosper and there kids can grow up somewhere there isn't a risk of starvation. Are they going about that the wrong way? Hell yes. Does this make them evil but? Hell no.

    The forsaken are just looking to fortify there borders so they can be left alone. They have no interest in going beyond that now that the lich king is dead. They have no way to reproduce so they have to use the valk's or be wiped out. Are they going about it the wrong way? No since there choice is simple fight or be killed. Use the valk's or be obliterated by the alliance. Does this make them evil? No since they have no choice to fight since the alliance isn't going to leave them alone even though it is realy there land and was long before they were undead. The current alliance has no right to the undead land but they only see them as monsters not the rightful owners of the land.

    Both races are doing what they have to to see the survival of there people. This does not make them evil that makes them good to there own people and bad to any who are opposed to there ideas. Lor'themar said it. "The horde exists because of the alliance". Both the orcs and the undead do what they do to see the survival of there races.

    Before people say "what about theramore". That was a defence move to cut off them supplying the night elves. And the only reason they went to war in Ashenvale was because the night elves would not trade with them. It was invade Ashenvale or watch the orcs stave to death. Thrall would have done the exact same thing if the night elves would not trade with them. Thrall would have put the orcs and trolls before the night elves and invaded Ashenvale as well.
    Last edited by Airwaves; 2013-02-15 at 11:14 AM.
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