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  • Orcs

    75 26.41%
  • Forsaken

    209 73.59%
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  1. #321
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Well... i don't think any of them are evil, most people will say that the forsakens are evil, I don't really agree with that, cause... what have they done bad?, The worst thing they have done many be Gilneas... but Sylvanas didn't want to attack Gilneas, but Garrosh pushed the forsaken to attack Gilneas because he wanted to create a naval base in gilneas... and let me quote what Airwaves said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    At the core of it the orcs are just looking for somewhere better then the middle of a desert so they can prosper and there kids can grow up somewhere there isn't a risk of starvation. Are they going about that the wrong way? Hell yes. Does this make them evil but? Hell no.

    The forsaken are just looking to fortify there borders so they can be left alone. They have no interest in going beyond that now that the lich king is dead. They have no way to reproduce so they have to use the valk's or be wiped out. Are they going about it the wrong way? No since there choice is simple fight or be killed. Use the valk's or be obliterated by the alliance. Does this make them evil? No since they have no choice to fight since the alliance isn't going to leave them alone even though it is realy there land and was long before they were undead. The current alliance has no right to the undead land but they only see them as monsters not the rightful owners of the land.

    Both races are doing what they have to to see the survival of there people. This does not make them evil that makes them good to there own people and bad to any who are opposed to there ideas. Lor'themar said it. "The horde exists because of the alliance". Both the orcs and the undead do what they do to see the survival of there races.

    Before people say "what about theramore". That was a defence move to cut off them supplying the night elves. And the only reason they went to war in Ashenvale was because the night elves would not trade with them. It was invade Ashenvale or watch the orcs stave to death. Thrall would have done the exact same thing if the night elves would not trade with them. Thrall would have put the orcs and trolls before the night elves and invaded Ashenvale as well.
    IMHO i would say that the more evil are the orcs... and not really the orcs..., is more like Garrosh is the evil one, and not because what he did in Theramore, just because what he have done to his allies, he making his forces kill anyone that speak against him...

  2. #322
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The percentage among orcs is quite high.
    Ofcourse it's higher. Their society has always promoted violence. The fault lies in their society and the traits they believe are most important. Orcs themselves aren't born bad or anything of the sort, it's just their society.

  3. #323
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Ofcourse it's higher. Their society has always promoted violence. The fault lies in their society and the traits they believe are most important. Orcs themselves aren't born bad or anything of the sort, it's just their society.
    Even Thrall feels that bloodlust, even though he was "raised" by humans.

  4. #324
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Evil is subjective, and neither the Orcs nor Forsaken are truly the definition of "evil".

    The Orcs, a good amount of them currently, are simply following their Warchief's rule, while some of them are split between their allegiance to him and whether or not the path Garrosh is leading them down is the right one.

    The Forsaken do what they feel they must to survive in this world. If there's any true persecuted race, I've always felt it was them.

    They have no means or procreating, and the only way they can create more of their kind is through..unconventional means.

    Regardless, I'd choose the darker of the two which is the Forsaken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Transorcers, Warlords in disguise.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  5. #325
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    I see the Orcs as more trying to establish themselves as a people, with a nation of their own making - something they have striven to do since coming to Kalimdor.

    I see the Forsaken as a people striving to gain the acceptance of the people that were their allies in life, and trying desperately not to be driven into forced extinction by the simple fact that they can't reproduce.

    This is like saying "Who is more Evil - Gnomes or Worgen?". If anything, Gnomes caused a huge chemical disaster that is going to eventually destroy the ability for any land that Gnomeregan happens to be under to produce crops, which will lead to the death of wildlife and the exodus of humanoids from that area. They did this because it amused them to play with that sort of shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  6. #326
    Again, the mere fact that Theresa the Mind-Slave exists is fairly damning as far as the Forsaken are concerned.

  7. #327
    At their core from the outside looking in -- Forsaken clearly more evil. Evil spelled backwards is Live. For the Forsaken to live they must prey upon the living or once dead of Loreadon. At some point they will reach critical mass and need new bodies to survive.

    Orcs . Well they are trying to survive as well. But they can do so more peacefully.

    Orcs will learn that their long term survival means getting along with other races -- Forsaken will learn that long term survival means feeding on the other races.

    Viewed from the inside. Forsaken will see themselves as desperately trying to survive as a people. The ends will justify the means.

    Orcs have a shamanistic outlook on some levels. They will eventually find harmony. The blood curse is now gone. The orcs will remain aggressive only to the point of defending what they have won.
    Last edited by Woeful; 2013-02-18 at 04:36 PM.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    I see the Orcs as more trying to establish themselves as a people, with a nation of their own making - something they have striven to do since coming to Kalimdor.

    I see the Forsaken as a people striving to gain the acceptance of the people that were their allies in life, and trying desperately not to be driven into forced extinction by the simple fact that they can't reproduce.

    This is like saying "Who is more Evil - Gnomes or Worgen?". If anything, Gnomes caused a huge chemical disaster that is going to eventually destroy the ability for any land that Gnomeregan happens to be under to produce crops, which will lead to the death of wildlife and the exodus of humanoids from that area. They did this because it amused them to play with that sort of shit.
    Or a people that were facing extinction from a sentient race of subterranean brutes, and were betrayed from within by one of their top politicians durimg this crisis. When you think about it, Gnomes and Blood Elves seem very similar.

    To be honest, this is all very subjective. When I see Orcs, I see a race that was purposely put to live in a shithole because of the atrocities they committed in the previous 2 wars. Then, seeing themselves as blameless for these actions, decide that they should live in prosperity in a world they invaded, which in their mind can only be achieved by wiping out a race that has lived in the forest for thousands of years.

    With the Forsaken, I see a race born out of evil, that betrayed those who helped them defeat their enemies (regardless of what Garithos MAY have do.e), and feels undeserving of the hate and mistrust they deservingly recieve. And to ensure their survival, they go out hunting corpses to ressurect into their misbegoten lifestyle. Is it justified for humans to go out raping women so that we can have more.babies?

  9. #329
    Surely it's only a matter of time til Sylvie goes coo coo.

  10. #330
    If there were a set of people who were incapable of feeling positive emotions (like many of the forsaken), who existed only to survive and destroy others, and who found it totally acceptable to backstab, betray, murder, poison, enslave, and destroy others, I would have no problem utterly annihilating them. The forsaken can go. Absolutely. Bai!

  11. #331
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post
    Again, the mere fact that Theresa the Mind-Slave exists is fairly damning as far as the Forsaken are concerned.
    And there's so much more. But don't bring logic and reason into this. People will refuse to accept it.

  12. #332
    Dreadlord Ishmad's Avatar
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    Neither. Garrosh and Sylvanas ain't the whole Orc or Forsaken population. Even as their leaders, no.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    And there's so much more. But don't bring logic and reason into this. People will refuse to accept it.
    No but thats only a few Forsaken, most of them are cheerful and snuggly!

  14. #334
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraspotatius View Post
    Surely it's only a matter of time til Sylvie goes coo coo.
    It's only a matter of time till the world is destroyed by an Apocalypse!
    Yes, Sylvanas going evil has been predicted almost as many times as the end of our world.
    And I am still waiting for both to happen.

    The fact that people have been yelling it for so long might even be the reason why they would never make her evil.
    Sylvanas going evil would be "predictable" according to some people.
    Why would a writer want to do that?

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    3rd option, neither. Bad poll is bad.
    Neither is more evil? So they have exactly the same level of evil as each other? That's quite fascinating, did you use a scientific formula to reach that conclusion or something?

  16. #336
    Forsaken are very clearly the more evil if we're assessing the two as morally aggregated groups. Most forsaken NPCs are detatched at best and sociopathic at worst. That is to say they do malicious things for no good reason, a lot of the time, and lack empathy altogether. Orcs are just ready to violently assert their need for a place in the world.

  17. #337
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    Neither is more evil? So they have exactly the same level of evil as each other? That's quite fascinating, did you use a scientific formula to reach that conclusion or something?
    No.
    The bad part about the poll is that answering it implies that you believe one is evil.

  18. #338
    The Foresaken are still more evil than the Orcs simply because there are more good Orcs that do not want to follow Garrosh. Foresaken take a certain delight in murder and torture.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The percentage among orcs is quite high.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Ofcourse it's higher. Their society has always promoted violence. The fault lies in their society and the traits they believe are most important. Orcs themselves aren't born bad or anything of the sort, it's just their society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Even Thrall feels that bloodlust, even though he was "raised" by humans.
    Their society might have glorified battle, but they didn't go rampaging across the entire planet killing everything in sight. They had a moral code and spiritual guidance to keep their natural thirst for battle in check. The Legion robbed them of this. An entire generation was bred under the madness induced by the Blood Curse. These Orcs were accelerated into adulthood. They skipped so many developmental processes of childhood that are crucial for morality, personality, identity, emotions, social relations, problem solving, and culture.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Forsaken are very clearly the more evil if we're assessing the two as morally aggregated groups. Most forsaken NPCs are detatched at best and sociopathic at worst. That is to say they do malicious things for no good reason, a lot of the time, and lack empathy altogether. Orcs are just ready to violently assert their need for a place in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by luccadeo View Post
    The Foresaken are still more evil than the Orcs simply because there are more good Orcs that do not want to follow Garrosh. Foresaken take a certain delight in murder and torture.
    This is the main problem with the argument that people make for why the Forsaken are evil. People say the Forsaken are psychopathic (which they are) so they gain enjoyment from the suffering of others. Being a psychopath doesn't make someone evil. It mutes their emotions, even the good ones. They are indifferent to the suffering of others, it's not that they derive enjoyment from it. The amount of psychopathy varies between individuals. Some individuals are actually evil, some are good, most are indifferent.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-18 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Grammar.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #340
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    And if you go to Silverpine you'll see that some even love their new state of being like Lord Godfrey and his Gilnean friends.
    That generally falls under acceptance, because to embrace something you have to accept it by definition.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

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