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  • Orcs

    75 26.41%
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  1. #141
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Finding more justifications for ridiculous insanity? Let's go with a recent and better example.
    Why did you write all this and didn't answer the actual point? I repeat: is sending a platoon to a certain death okay? Does having them accept unexpected aid make them traitors?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Some humans? Then the Forsaken just used some unknown humans. Again, sort it the hell out. Official or not, Alliance or not.
    What needs to be sorted out?

    They killed a bastard, and you lament him like he a martyr.
    what the fuck are you talking about? No one is lamenting him at all. Ya he was a bastard. Sylvanas is a far bigger treacherous rotting bitch but you fanbois think no end of her. She deserved everything that has happened to her, and really deserves to be offed for good in the storyline for everything she's done. You are so pathetically one sided it's unreal. I don't have any love for Garithos, I just wonder why you think it's okay to hate an ENTIRE FACTION for the actions of a few, which PALE in comparison to the actions of the HORDE against the ALLIANCE, which you say the Alliance should just take and be fine with. Hypocritical rubbish through and through.

    Ahem... actually, the reason Sylvanas liberated Garithos and his men (read the bolded part aloud several times to remember) was that they had poor chances of taking the Undercity alone, with dreadlords still active. Hence, they liberated Garithos and his men, and struck a deal: they go on a joined assault on Undercity, Garithos gets everything, Forsaken get nothing and GTFO if they don't want to be slain. There's no arguing that. Now, does this sound like a fair agreement? Of course it does to The Superior Faction.
    Sylvanas could've simply told them to fuck off. She made the agreement and lied about it. I guess it's okay.

    Well, if you go on about orcs... saving Azeroth was not even their business. Either they help save it and get a place in it, or not. However the NE chose to side with the Alliance (like humans and dwarves never, ever cut wood). Though I believe this thing is largely dictated by game mechanics.
    Has dick to do with game mechanics. The Elves Immortality as defined in the game meant they'd never grow old and weak then eventually die. No ones characters will be walking a 70 year timeline. And it wasn't "cutting wood" that bothered the Night Elves, it was cutting down THEIR FORESTS. Which are their sacred homes. But ya, it's okay right? Fuck them, they are just purple tree huggers and there's no harm in taking wood from their land and destroying it in the process? Cause thats what you Horde fans think. I've yet to ever hear a single one of you say THAT was wrong or even understand it. But god forbid some humans don't wanna team up with Forsaken and it's a huge insulting travesty and they are all racist hater bigots.

    They have liberated Garithos and his men from mind slavery. They have saved the Blood Elves - Sylvanas was the one who convinced Thrall to take them into the Horde, and gave them support in Ghostlands.
    They didn't save the Blood Elves. The ones who saved the Blood Elves are the Draenei. All the Forsaken did was exert their influence upon them and make veiled threats of obedience. To her more than the Horde itself.

    They have invented a cure from Lich King's zombie plague (pre-Wrath event).
    Game mechanic, it, just like Zombie Plague, wasn't exactly a canonical lore device.

    It was okay to use and betray racist bigots, who have used and betrayed Blood Elves before.
    And it will be okay for the next generation of Forsaken, people like Lillian Voss and Lord Godfrey to seek vengeance against those whom are responsible for their condition. I hope they rip Sylvanas limb from limb

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 07:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Why did you write all this and didn't answer the actual point? I repeat: is sending a platoon to a certain death okay? Does having them accept unexpected aid make them traitors?
    No one said it was. But it sure as hell doesn't justify hating an entire race and faction. Now how about YOU answer my question because THAT is the ACTUAL POINT? Oh wait you won't. You haven't the ability to, it requires you to get out of your little forsaken fanboi echo chamber. Please do though. At least try since I've fucked away too much time repeating the same crap you should've just read from my earlier posts.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    rubbish
    Really? Why didn't anyone stand up to Garithos and his racist bullshit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    no one said she had malice. She didn't give a shit. And she still doesn't. But her people think she does. That, while not directly malicious, is underhanded bitchery
    Yes, she is a psychopath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    That was a crafted vision the Valkyr created for her... It really has dick to do with a storyline, that never happened at all, and never would've. It's in line with Velen's vision of a second coming of the Scourge being victorious. you really think that is gona happen in WoW?
    A vision of the future that included events that were currently happening, but she would have no knowledge of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    She didn't change at all.
    Not acting not out of self interest and seeking kinship doesn't constitute a change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    She merely shifted her vengeance to the next thing to hate down the list. Which happened to be Gilneas and the surviving humans in Lordaeron. What's next? Orcs? Trolls? Night Elves? Death Knights? The fly that buzzed out of her mouth while she was talking and made her cough? She's not alone; her people share her mindset. Those whom DO NOT are NOT affiliated with them any more.
    She didn't attack Gilneas. Garrosh attacked Gilneas with the Forsaken army while she was in ICC killing herself.

    She's not shifting her vengeance towards anyone. She is securing her territory in a defensive effort because she knows the Alliance will invade and try to exterminate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    you don't NEED proof. It's not necessary. They aren't on trial for anything, this isn't a bloody circus courtroom. They had every reason not to trust her and she proved herself to be untrustworthy.
    Saving their lives and working together to fight the Scourge aren't reasons to begin trusting her?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Dont really give a bloody crap about her "intentions". She betrayed them and lied to them. Something the Forsaken have cemented as their modus operandi. People do NOT want to be lied to and certainly don't want to betrayed, especially with lethal consequences. The others dodged a bullet. That's how it was written, so stop making excuses and exemptions for her. They didn't trust the bitch or her merry band, and her actions validated their mistrust.
    I'm not excusing her. I know they were right about her being untrustworthy. The key is that they had no reason to believe she was a lying psychopath before she actually betrayed anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    no, it's not, sadly.
    You have a funny definition of betrayal.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 11:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Ya, everyone else is just a useless piece of shit, fit for using so one pathetic wretch of an elf can claim her vengeance. She's killed thousands of people on that road. Thats why she has nothing but flames and an eternity of pain waiting for her when she dies...
    I never said she was a good person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Including themselves. They just took it. Mind you there barely was any one left at the time. Ultimately, how is it humanity's fault or the Alliance's fault? Kael'thas should've been a good bit stronger in combat than Garithos...
    Kael totally just walked into prison because Garithos told him to...
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-16 at 07:14 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Really? Why didn't anyone stand up to Garithos and his racist bullshit?
    Ask the Blood Elves, Dwarves and Humans that were there? cause they weren't written that way?

    Yes, she is a psychopath.
    glad we've cleared that up, now let's stop trying to find justification for her actions.

    A vision of the future that included events that were currently happening, but she would have no knowledge of.
    there were no events currently happening. Varian Wrynn wasn't marching on Undercity...

    Not acting not out of self interest and seeking kinship doesn't constitute a change?
    I am not convinced she's not acting out of self interest, like I said putting a nation between yourself and an eternity burning in hell with Arthas is a good survival strategy. but this is opinion and Im sick of going roundabout on it. I don't think she's changed her attitude at all. You do. I provide my reasons, you provide yours, both valid, the story has yet to be written.

    She didn't attack Gilneas. Garrosh attacked Gilneas with the Forsaken army while she was in ICC killing herself.
    No, she was present for the Gilneas intro questline, bloody hell, play a Worgen... she wasn't off in ICC killing herself at the time.

    She's not shifting her vengeance towards anyone. She is securing her territory in a defensive effort because she knows the Alliance will invade and try to exterminate them.[/quote] She*fears* the Alliance will. She knows nothing. The Alliance hasn't made any aggression towards her at all. She's been attacking them...

    Saving their lives and working together to fight the Scourge aren't reasons to begin trusting her?
    Enemy of my enemy =/= my friend.


    I'm not excusing her. I know they were right about her being untrustworthy. The key is that they had no reason to believe she was a lying psychopath before she actually betrayed anyone.
    There's "no reason" to believe a guy shuffling up to you at night as you walk alone on a sidewalk is going to mug you but would you let yourself be caught off guard? Or will you try to handle this by saying "there is a reason, and the reason is (insert clothing, demeanor, ethnicity etc)".


    You have a funny definition of betrayal.
    Arrows in a quiver, right?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 07:23 AM ----------

    And just for clarification, I don't find the Forsaken to be evil. Their endless vengeance is not necessarily evil, but it's destructive, to the ends of self-destructive. It has to change.

  5. #145
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Sylvanas could've simply told them to fuck off. She made the agreement and lied about it. I guess it's okay.
    Yes, that IS okay..
    Why? Because Garithos was an idiot and an Alliance-member.
    Nobody in the Horde or the Forsaken will let a tear for his passing.

    Was it a bitch-move? Maybe.. But they would do it again with no remorse.
    But that doesn't make Sylvanas or the Forsaken "evil".

    No one said it was. But it sure as hell doesn't justify hating an entire race and faction. Now how about YOU answer my question because THAT is the ACTUAL POINT? Oh wait you won't. You haven't the ability to, it requires you to get out of your little forsaken fanboi echo chamber. Please do though. At least try since I've fucked away too much time repeating the same crap you should've just read from my earlier posts.
    No, what justifies hating an entire race/faction is the repeatedly betrayal and backstabbing from people who are supposed to be your "allies".
    In our own real history we had enough wars for less bullshit.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Ask the Blood Elves, Dwarves and Humans that were there? cause they weren't written that way?
    So they aren't responsible for their actions because of the writers? Then nobody is evil, not eve Sargeras. He was just written that way. This is such a copout argument. We are discussing events within the context of the Warcraft universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    glad we've cleared that up, now let's stop trying to find justification for her actions.
    I'm not justifying her actions. I'm explaining her motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    there were no events currently happening. Varian Wrynn wasn't marching on Undercity...
    The vision showed the consequences of events currently happening, of which she had no knowledge. Like the battle at Gilneas: "The heart of the Forsaken army had been sacrificed at Gilneas." This hasn't happened yet. Garrosh is waiting for the Forsaken army to arrive and the Greymayne Wall.

    While she's in ICC: "Garrosh's backhand ripped through the sky, spraying the tent with a glistening arc of rainwater as it smashed into the side of Lydon's face."
    In the vision of the future: "Master Apothecary Lydon was there, his left arm missing and an enormous gash across his face."

    Lydon gets his face smashed in the present while Sylvanas is in ICC, yet that mark shows up in the vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    I am not convinced she's not acting out of self interest, like I said putting a nation between yourself and an eternity burning in hell with Arthas is a good survival strategy. but this is opinion and Im sick of going roundabout on it. I don't think she's changed her attitude at all. You do. I provide my reasons, you provide yours, both valid, the story has yet to be written.
    It's not just about self preservation: "But she didn't want to give her assent out of fear. She waited until she felt something more. A fellowship. A sisterhood. Sisters. Separate, they were all trapped. But together, they were free… and with them, she could postpone her fate."

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    No, she was present for the Gilneas intro questline, bloody hell, play a Worgen... she wasn't off in ICC killing herself at the time.
    Her involvement with the attack on Gilneas was after she returned from ICC. Before this, Garrosh was assaulting the Greymayne wall ordering the Forsaken to do a suicidal charge.

    "My three fastest ships have already been dispatched to the southern coast to divert the attention of the Gilnean capital. And even now I gather reinforcements from Deathknell."
    These ships have just been sent. They are part of the Worgen starting zone. Therefore, the Worgen starting zone and Sylvanas' involvement happen after she returned and took over to reduce Forsaken casualties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    She*fears* the Alliance will. She knows nothing. The Alliance hasn't made any aggression towards her at all. She's been attacking them...
    She knows it will happen because of the vision the Val'kyr showed her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    There's "no reason" to believe a guy shuffling up to you at night as you walk alone on a sidewalk is going to mug you but would you let yourself be caught off guard? Or will you try to handle this by saying "there is a reason, and the reason is (insert clothing, demeanor, ethnicity etc)".
    That's the same as immediately assuming every Arab who walks up to you is a terrorist.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-16 at 09:53 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  7. #147
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Nah, I'm out. It's of no use to argue with a fanatic. Let's just accept that the Forsaken are the ultimate evil of Warcraft, Sylvanas is worse than Deathwing and Lich King combined, and that Alliance is flawless and never to blame for anything. All the undead, orcs, and blood elves have always been inherently full of lies, betrayal, and wrongness in everything they ever did, so it's fine to prosecute them for existing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Finding more justifications for ridiculous insanity? Let's go with a recent and better example.

    Druids of the Flame.

    Evil?

    They fit all the criteria for the forsaken.

    Wronged immensely by an enemy.
    Homes, families, lives destroyed to the point where they don't care if the whole world burns.
    Consumed with vengeance against those whom don't suffer like they do.
    Blame those they trusted to protect and defend them as just as responsible for their condition as the Horde itself.
    Gave in and threw everything to the wind, became embodiments of vengeance.

    Are they justified? Is it okay for them to feel the way they do? Remember it was not Ragnaros that made Druids of the Flame, they sought him when they felt they had nothing left to live for or lose.

    While I can understand where they are coming from (just like the Forsaken), their approach was ultimately destructive.
    Nice example you have there. The Druids of Flame are corrupted. Their leader is Fandral Staghelm who was corrupted and driven insane.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They are now. You should look up the history of psychology and neurology. Really, any of the life sciences.

    Let me just give you an example: The first blood transfusion was performed in 1667 by Jean-Baptiste Denys. He drained the blood out of a 15-year-old boy and then replaced it with the blood of a sheep. Luckily, the boy survived.

    Then, in the winter of 1667, Denys performed several transfusions on Antoine Mauroy with calf's blood, who on the third account died. Much controversy surrounded his death as Mauroy's wife asserted Denys was responsible for her husband's death. Denys was charged with murder but was acquitted, and in an unusual twist, Mauroy's wife was accused of causing his death which was later determined to be from arsenic poisoning.


    After the trial, Denys quit the practice of medicine and his experiments with animal blood provoked a heated controversy in France, which banned the procedure in 1670. It wasn't until after Karl Landsteiner's discovery of the four blood groups in 1902 that blood transfusions became safe and reliable.


    http://historystack.posterous.com/jean-baptiste-denys
    So yeah, I think your one (1) anecdote saves the rest, right?

    ...Right?

    The whole thread doesn't seem to have moved forward from the usual, shallow "Ooh they're not evil, they're just being utterly reckless and hellbent on getting more power regardless of others' and self's well-being!" -mumbling anyway. I wonder where such stagnation stems from.
    Last edited by Kasami; 2013-02-16 at 10:48 AM.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    So yeah, I think your one (1) anecdote saves the rest, right?

    ...Right?
    I don't get your point. Saves the rest of what?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I don't get your point. Saves the rest of what?
    You implied with your example that the history of unethical science to the point of torturing wasn't so bad after all: I showed this isn't the case.

    FFS, don't people read their posts after they've sent them anymore.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  12. #152
    Herald of the Titans Syridian's Avatar
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    I'll give you that when some forsaken are ''ressed'', they aren't all about '"DEATH TO THE LIVING'' or ''VENGEANCE RAWAWG!''. Some of them just want to serve their new queen, who brought them back. However, that new queen is running about, killing living people, often civillians, purely so she can bring them back to life as her minions (Brainwashed minions as we see following WPL) regardless of whether they want to join the forsaken or not.

    I'm not going to go so far as to label that outright ''Evil''. Hell, she could probably be seen as doing what she thinks is right from her perspective. But lets not point blankedly deny that running about, killing people and using their corpses to create monsters or unwilling soldiers isn't morally questionable.

    Compared to that, the Orcs are just fighting a war. A bloodthirsty one, but when is a war not? /srsbsns abt cmpter gaemz OFF

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    You implied with your example that the history of unethical science to the point of torturing wasn't so bad after all: I showed this isn't the case.

    FFS, don't people read their posts after they've sent them anymore.
    What? No... I said, "Science IRL is full of distasteful experiments. Doesn't make those researchers evil." My example with Denys was to show that he did unethical things, but he wasn't evil.

    Do you want me to give examples from psychology and neurology? How about the whole practice of lobotomies? Or organ transplants? Or how about animal testing? A lot of the experiments done in these fields could be considered torture. Doesn't make the scientists evil.

    Also, your example doesn't even support the argument you are trying to make. Denys' subjects survived just fine. The one you mentioned died because he was poisoned by his wife.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-16 at 11:28 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  14. #154
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    The real question is why are Blood Elves blaming the Alliance and humanity for his actions, to the point of hatred? Again I said betrayed humans not the Alliance. That comes afterwards.
    I can only guess, but they might they feel betrayed because not a single human helped them against the scourge, while elves fought an died for Lordaeron and the fiasco with Garithos and his men and the apparent betrayal by their longest standing human allies the Kirin Tor(their inaction to the death sentence).

    Then there is the night elven incursion and the dwarven spy that more or less sealed the deal.

    Tell me one good thing the Forsaken have actually done, as a nation, to benefit even the HORDE much more the world?
    They cured the new plague the Lich King unleashed prior to Wotlk, though that is actually the only major thing that comes to mind ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Including themselves. They just took it. Mind you there barely was any one left at the time. Ultimately, how is it humanity's fault or the Alliance's fault? Kael'thas should've been a good bit stronger in combat than Garithos...
    They were still outnumbered ten to one, they had no chance against these odds.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-02-16 at 11:51 AM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    What? No... I said, "Science IRL is full of distasteful experiments. Doesn't make those researchers evil." My example with Denys was to show that he did unethical things, but he wasn't evil.

    Do you want me to give examples from psychology and neurology? How about the whole practice of lobotomies? Or organ transplants? Or how about animal testing? A lot of the experiments done in these fields could be considered torture. Doesn't make the scientists evil.

    Also, your example doesn't even support the argument you are trying to make. Denys' subjects survived just fine. The one you mentioned died because he was poisoned by his wife.
    Denys was charged with murder but was acquitted, and in an unusual twist, Mauroy's wife was accused of causing his death which was later determined to be from arsenic poisoning
    Women still were 2nd class citizens back then, it wasn't that difficult to put problems on them.

    There's a clear line between a surgering doctor who knows what he's doing and total neglicence of other people's wellbeing; these people barely did systematic science. Just because they ended up with scientific evidence doesn't remove their deeds away from moral responsibility.

    I can't believe you actually offered lobotomy as an example.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    Women still were 2nd class citizens back then, it wasn't that difficult to put problems on them.
    Wow... Seriously? That's your position? Denys framed the wife? With absolutely no evidence to back up your claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    There's a clear line between a surgering doctor who knows what he's doing and total neglicence of other people's wellbeing; these people barely did systematic science. Just because they ended up with scientific evidence doesn't remove their deeds away from moral responsibility.

    I can't believe you actually offered lobotomy as an example.
    Because scientific knowledge magically sprung up in textbooks out of thin air... These people weren't evil, they were trying to learn something that had never been known before. They were trying to save people's lives. Did they sometimes do things that were unethical? Yes, but they were not evil.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Wow... Seriously? That's your position? Denys framed the wife? With absolutely no evidence to back up your claim?
    It wasn't me laying it all on accusations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Because scientific knowledge magically sprung up in textbooks out of thin air... These people weren't evil, they were trying to learn something that had never been known before. They were trying to save people's lives. Did they sometimes do things that were unethical? Yes, but they were not evil.
    They didn't do it to save lives, they did it "in the name of science" i.e. not giving a crap about consiquences. If they had anything curable in their minds about it they would've not done it in the first place.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    It wasn't me laying it all on accusations.
    What? It's in your own citation that the wife poisoned him: "Mauroy's wife was accused of causing his death which was later determined to be from arsenic poisoning."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    They didn't do it to save lives, they did it "in the name of science" i.e. not giving a crap about consiquences. If they had anything curable in their minds about it they would've not done it in the first place.
    These weren't rogue mad scientists. These were respected people working in an international scientific and academic community.

    Specifically with blood transfusions, they were doing it for curative purposes. They believed that transfusing the blood of a docile animal (like a lamb) would have a calming influence on an agitated person. Or that the blood of a sociable animal would make a shy person more outgoing.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    What? It's in your own citation that the wife poisoned him: "Mauroy's wife was accused of causing his death which was later determined to be from arsenic poisoning."


    These weren't rogue mad scientists. These were respected people working in an international scientific and academic community.

    Specifically with blood transfusions, they were doing it for curative purposes. They believed that transfusing the blood of a docile animal (like a lamb) would have a calming influence on an agitated person. Or that the blood of a sociable animal would make a shy person more outgoing.
    The quote is still talking of accusations, not that she was the one poisoning him. You clearly aren't getting it.


    Specifically with blood transfusions, they were doing it for curative purposes. They believed that transfusing the blood of a docile animal (like a lamb) would have a calming influence on an agitated person. Or that the blood of a sociable animal would make a shy person more outgoing.
    So did nazis believe too they were making the world a favor. I can't believe you're actually weighting ethics and morals based on obliviousness and ignorance.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    The quote is still talking of accusations, not that she was the one poisoning him. You clearly aren't getting it.
    You aren't getting it. "Mauroy's wife was accused of causing his death which was later determined to be from arsenic poisoning." They accused her of murder. Then they determined she did it with arsenic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasami View Post
    So did nazis believe too they were making the world a favor. I can't believe you're actually weighting ethics and morals based on obliviousness and ignorance.
    I can't believe you actually equate scientific research with the Holocaust. What makes people like the Nazis evil is that they torture for the sake of torture via medical procedures.

    My original statement still stands: "Science IRL is full of distasteful experiments. Doesn't make those researchers evil." There are more cases than not, where the suffering of the subjects is nonexistent or incidental and unforeseen. Being evil requires intent. Being ignorant of potentially deleterious effects isn't good, but it doesn't make them evil.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

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