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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukem View Post

    The main reason for guilds falling apart is not that people stop playig, but the leaders who stop caring for their guilds.
    This is the biggest truth of them all.
    I'm GM of top 50 guild, 25 man. I know if me and my officers would quit that guild would go down. It's hard to find new people willing to put up the effort needed to lead the guild, especially 25 man one. When leadership quits it's usually the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, I'm roundly rejecting your idea that LFR isn't raiding.
    The raiding scene is larger than in wrath - because LFR is raiding. It replaces the pugs that were a feature of Wotlk.
    Tell you what, I remove LFR and you remove pugs.
    What the actual f...

  2. #202
    Truthfully, I just plain stopped having fun. I don't even know why.

    One night, my wife and I log in for raid and we both whispered each other @ the same time basically saying, "Ugh, I just plain do not want to do this tonight." Neither one of us has raided since then (2 months ago).

  3. #203
    The Patient
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    Back in Wotlk, I was part of this Elite guild that was truthfully amazing. Had Uldaur hardmodes on farm ( It was the latest raid ATT ) We would walk in and 1 shot everything
    We only raided once a week because we would rape 3 drakes , Naxx 25 imm run, mally and uldaur all in 1 night. Then our GM " Found pussy " for about month and the guild shut down. No 1 was willing to lead up. Then again our GM was awesome but still. When you make a guild its your job to run it you cant get lazy if you want a good guild
    GC : Reclaimer, Everything you say is real and I respect you because you tell it.
    Reclaimer : When you say " Plz " instead of please, I say " No " because its shorter than Yes.
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  4. #204
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    We spent over a month on Amber Shaper. Keep going and eventually RNG will net you the kill.
    yeah. our closest attempts were when ( the two very confused individuals who can never get the interupts) were not turned into constructs, but still no dice during phase three people dropping like flies.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 11:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    Back in Wotlk, I was part of this Elite guild that was truthfully amazing. Had Uldaur hardmodes on farm ( It was the latest raid ATT ) We would walk in and 1 shot everything
    We only raided once a week because we would rape 3 drakes , Naxx 25 imm run, mally and uldaur all in 1 night. Then our GM " Found pussy " for about month and the guild shut down. No 1 was willing to lead up. Then again our GM was awesome but still. When you make a guild its your job to run it you cant get lazy if you want a good guild
    ah. slept too close to the crack. that has downed many a guild.......... lOL





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  5. #205
    I think you are speaking to a larger problem. Yes, guilds do quit and people grow tired and frustrated with the progression or lack thereof.

    My own guild, sadly can't get the hang of Wind Lord. We have almost 100 wipes. Its hard to log on and know the same people who screw up the same mechanics every time are going to screw them up again.

    1. Recruiting at the end of a patch is terrible. The free lance player who is looking for a guild wants a hand out, he or she wants to see and blow through the content.

    2. Guilds that are struggling are doing so for a reason. For example, lack of talent or lack of gear. You can't unteach stupid. You can't convince a 5 year player that key board turning is not going to cut it. Kicking that player and replacing him feeds back to issue number 1. Recruiting is hard. Damn tough especially if you aren't progressing.

  6. #206
    We are the top 25man guild on our server, one of the most populated ones in Europe; Ravencrest. We been looking for a proper 2nd mage for half a year...

    Don't get me wrong, we raid 2 days a week and have 16/16hc on farm, so all is fine and dandy. Just impossible to find certain proper players, playing certain classes these days. Especially if you don't want some random wrath-kid fresh out of LFR.

    The predicted laughable Thunderforge droprate increase from 10man to 25man most likely wont change a damn thing in the recruitment department for 25man guilds.

    This all makes me shiver when I think about how recruitment is in "less popular" guilds these days.
    Last edited by Nelle; 2013-02-18 at 05:15 PM.

    Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake

  7. #207
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    I have noticed this trend since Vanilla people have always come and gone

  8. #208
    Noticed a fair few guilds I was a big fan off going from 25's to 10's and eventually folding. Such a shame. I don't know if it's because of the content or just because they have been playing for a long time. I had a break myself in November (various reasons though- first break since Vanilla), but started missing raiding and came back again. So who knows they might just need a few weeks break and come back, but for some guilds I doubt it, which is a real shame.
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  9. #209
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelle View Post
    We are the top 25man guild on our server, one of the most populated ones in Europe; Ravencrest. We been looking for a proper 2nd mage for half a year...

    Don't get me wrong, we raid 2 days a week and have 16/16hc on farm, so all is fine and dandy. Just impossible to find certain proper players, playing certain classes these days. Especially if you don't want some random wrath-kid fresh out of LFR.

    The predicted laughable Thunderforge droprate increase from 10man to 25man most likely wont change a damn thing in the recruitment department for 25man guilds.
    agree with you there. it will most likely make it worse as a vast number of 10 man guilds start absorbing what players there are available and transitioning to 25 man format for the ease of content bundled with the "higher" drop rate of blizzards new bone they are throwing at 25 man guilds.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Played since vanilla beta.



    You say that like it's a bad thing.


    Great. So what?


    Right. I said this. it's completely normal. Most people just want to arse about and get some gear without needing to research or spend ages learning lots of different stuff. What's wrong with that?


    Then how come the clear rate isn't where it would be if blizzard catered to the average? Why do HC modes exist at all?




    The numbers were irrelevent to the principle. I suspect you know this.


    I don't want them to succeed, at least not as the priority. I want them to be friends.
    Alright, so, basically you want handouts. You don't want your raid to actually have to try. You don't want to improve. You don't want to do anything but walk into a raid and kill bosses without any effort.

    Good news! LFR is for YOU!

    That's about the only realistic answer you can get from anyone in here. WoW is not a game for people that don't want to try. Had I known that's what you were going for, I never would've replied to you. You are not the average player and Blizzard will never tune normal/heroic content for your demographic. Personally, I want nothing to do with you or any players of your kind. You are a detriment to my enjoyment of this game.

    You might not like challenge, but WoW is a game and every game that I have ever played has required an element of challenge to be fun. That's the whole point of a game, which you have failed to realize. This also applies to "real-life games" like sports.

    I'm sorry your fellow raiders aren't interested in improving. Like I said, LFR is perfect for them. Quit trying to fuck up the normal/heroic game for the rest of us.

  11. #211
    Pandaren Monk schwank05's Avatar
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    Its weird, our server used to have like 20 guilds that raided back in Cata, now er have over 40 doing content. I know our guild took almost a 2 month break for Christmas, many of the old vanilla players which our guild is mostly comprised of have quit wow altogether. The dailies have ruined it for a lot of us.

  12. #212
    Time, or lack thereof, is a huge factor for me in mop. I went from raiding 25man heroic in wrath, to 10man heroic in cata, to nothing in mop; real life got in the way, stuff happens, that's just life. I think the real issue is ppl got use to the ease of raiding and the accessibility of gear in prior expansions and now that they have to actually work for it, they complain. Blizz is partly to blame for spoiling us. For now I'm content with rf until my life allows more active raiding again. Roll with the flow folks its out of your control anyway.

  13. #213
    My last guild was a hardcore 25man heroic raiding guild during firelands. dropped down to 2x10 man raids when dragon soul came out (pissed about with some 25 man but rarely had numbers) in the end we where down to just 1 10m heroic grp. Officers took the best/favorite peeps and left the rest of us out for alt runs or pugs. Wasnt too fussed.

    Mop comes round and we do really well in Vaults but heart of fear is a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Any fight where movement was needed was death for our healers. Our shammy played on a laptop with no mouse and our priest actually said in raid one night "priests cant move and heal" Ocassionally wed get lucky and get past the first boss by just useing our combat rezzes on the healers who died to the disks then burning it down quick. But windlord... jesus christ! if either of them survived to make it to the first platform on the wind tunnel phase by the time they got there wed be moveing to the other platform. Our priest tried to make a tactic where he sat at the other end healing people while they ran then sitting there waiting to heal peeps when they came back... and he died before the 10% switch...

    Big problem our guild had was the two healers who were the problem were high ranking members whod either been in the guild forever or were sleeping with the GM. GM wouldnt say anything, got narky with anyone who did say anything, and generally diddnt want to fix the problem if it would piss off the people at fault. Guild died when people stopped signing up for the wipefests.

    Firelands, Dragonsoul heck even most of mogushun vaults where easy for people who couldnt be arsed to learn how to move during fights. Hell even on the few fights with dodge mechanics it wasnt that big of a deal if you had one or two peeps who got hit by them. But someone standing still during the discs on the first boss of hof or not being able to dodge tornadoes for shit during wind lord isnt something the rest of the raid can help with.

    TLDR - Raiding guilds had it easy till HoF, were simple movement mechanics proved that some heroic raiders dont deserve the title

  14. #214
    yea my guild has been the opposite its flourishing more now than ever and still growing strong.

  15. #215
    Im my experience, dailies burned out people and they just dont log in anymroe or log in very little.

    Although its anecdotal evidence, but from the people i know dailies are the main factor to make people quit or stop logging, and by far.

  16. #216
    High Overlord Azulor's Avatar
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    Our 10man guild has been plagued with problems from the very start of MoP. Initially only 9 of us stayed on to raid T14 from DS (We actually had two 10man teams in DS, and even then we all stopped after 1 month of it). Within 2 months, only 5 of us were still around. Just last week our leader stepped down and quit (mid raid), and I inherited the position. And thus far this past lockout, 8 showed up the first night (luckily recruiting a new member), and only 6 have for the other two nights (one of them was thursday and thus was a bad night to raid anyway). This tier is wreaking havoc on our raiding attendance, and have been stuck at 4/16H for almost a month. We're almost at the point where we will likely have a break until 5.2 just to refresh and go in strong once it goes live.

    TLDR: Guild has gone from 20 to 8 active raiders ever since DS, technically losing 16 and gaining 4.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    LFR and dailies don't require guilds. Normal and hc raiding is done by 3 or 5 or whatever miniscule percentage of the population. What do you expect?
    You really believe only 3-5% of players raid in normal mode or above?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelle View Post
    We are the top 25man guild on our server, one of the most populated ones in Europe; Ravencrest. We been looking for a proper 2nd mage for half a year...

    Don't get me wrong, we raid 2 days a week and have 16/16hc on farm, so all is fine and dandy. Just impossible to find certain proper players, playing certain classes these days. Especially if you don't want some random wrath-kid fresh out of LFR.

    The predicted laughable Thunderforge droprate increase from 10man to 25man most likely wont change a damn thing in the recruitment department for 25man guilds.

    This all makes me shiver when I think about how recruitment is in "less popular" guilds these days.
    You have hit on the other problem with guilds and end patch/expansion raiding. You are looking for someone very special. You are looking for (i) a mage (ii) on your sever (iii) with experience (iv) gear and (v) willingness to stick with you guys.

    I am not throwing mud at you or your guild. There is a disconnect between the available raiders. (The people late in the expansion who want to see the heroic content.) And those who are already see the content, or already done it, and have no interest in trying to break in with a new group of people.

    Those people like myself (for example) would love to see the heroic content, but because I chose and may not have the talent to raid at that level or don't have the time to devote to that level, we can't get an interview in your guild.

    I play on US Area 52. On the horde side there are guilds constantly looking for new players. WHen I was still guild shopping I responded.

    "I am interested."

    "What's your gear score and experience?"

    "Score is 473 and I have done it on LFR."

    "Well your score is a little low. Sorry, and we are progressing so we don't want to teach you the fights."

    "Can I go on standby or whatnot?"

    "We only recruit raiders to keep the drama down sorry. Good luck."

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Alright, so, basically you want handouts. You don't want your raid to actually have to try. You don't want to improve. You don't want to do anything but walk into a raid and kill bosses without any effort.

    Good news! LFR is for YOU!

    That's about the only realistic answer you can get from anyone in here. WoW is not a game for people that don't want to try. Had I known that's what you were going for, I never would've replied to you. You are not the average player and Blizzard will never tune normal/heroic content for your demographic. Personally, I want nothing to do with you or any players of your kind. You are a detriment to my enjoyment of this game.

    You might not like challenge, but WoW is a game and every game that I have ever played has required an element of challenge to be fun. That's the whole point of a game, which you have failed to realize. This also applies to "real-life games" like sports.

    I'm sorry your fellow raiders aren't interested in improving. Like I said, LFR is perfect for them. Quit trying to fuck up the normal/heroic game for the rest of us.
    Animal Crossing has zero challenge and is fun as hell :x

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 06:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Woeful View Post
    You have hit on the other problem with guilds and end patch/expansion raiding. You are looking for someone very special. You are looking for (i) a mage (ii) on your sever (iii) with experience (iv) gear and (v) willingness to stick with you guys.

    I am not throwing mud at you or your guild. There is a disconnect between the available raiders. (The people late in the expansion who want to see the heroic content.) And those who are already see the content, or already done it, and have no interest in trying to break in with a new group of people.

    Those people like myself (for example) would love to see the heroic content, but because I chose and may not have the talent to raid at that level or don't have the time to devote to that level, we can't get an interview in your guild.

    I play on US Area 52. On the horde side there are guilds constantly looking for new players. WHen I was still guild shopping I responded.

    "I am interested."

    "What's your gear score and experience?"

    "Score is 473 and I have done it on LFR."

    "Well your score is a little low. Sorry, and we are progressing so we don't want to teach you the fights."

    "Can I go on standby or whatnot?"

    "We only recruit raiders to keep the drama down sorry. Good luck."
    That's something I've mentioned before, raiders have insane expectations when contending with an already small minority of people who want to do the activity they like. They're some of the most gating, elitist bunches, coupled with being major gloryhounds and abhor pouring extra effort into anything that isn't themselves.

    I bet you a nickel and a bag of peanuts that the vast majority of people in non-raid content that are all "GO GO GO GO GO" "HURRY GO" and get easily agitated, 9 times out of 10, are raiders.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 06:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lordmatthias View Post
    You really believe only 3-5% of players raid in normal mode or above?
    It's around there. At the best of times, when something has been nerfed into the ground, like ICC or DS, it still isn't a lot of people.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 06:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Alright, so, basically you want handouts. You don't want your raid to actually have to try. You don't want to improve. You don't want to do anything but walk into a raid and kill bosses without any effort.

    Good news! LFR is for YOU!

    That's about the only realistic answer you can get from anyone in here. WoW is not a game for people that don't want to try. Had I known that's what you were going for, I never would've replied to you. You are not the average player and Blizzard will never tune normal/heroic content for your demographic. Personally, I want nothing to do with you or any players of your kind. You are a detriment to my enjoyment of this game.

    You might not like challenge, but WoW is a game and every game that I have ever played has required an element of challenge to be fun. That's the whole point of a game, which you have failed to realize. This also applies to "real-life games" like sports.

    I'm sorry your fellow raiders aren't interested in improving. Like I said, LFR is perfect for them. Quit trying to fuck up the normal/heroic game for the rest of us.
    What WoW actually is, what you and other raiders think WoW is, and what Blizzard think WoW is are all in direct conflict with one another

  20. #220
    I think the main issue comes from ds. Every guild could easily get 8/8hc at that time and when some of those guilds failed to progress (I mean clearing almost full heroic content by that) they lost hope. Mop raiding is a big turn from cata raiding and it will take people some time to get used to it.

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