Guilds Falling Apart a Lot This Patch

[AnotherInternetOpinion]

I was in an excellent guild for all of Vanilla I was one of the few that cleared all the content. I still hate Vanilla looking back because how undertuned a lot of the fights were. I started on a server that had no good raiding guilds so I had to completely restart on another one just to get a chance to down all the content. My view is still the same that Vanilla was undertuned and they only ever fixed bosses that were impossible. I just always run into the players that say O yea I loved vanilla raiding just to find out they never did it. 90% of the time someone who says vanilla raiding was fun never raided in vanilla because 90% of us who actually got that content down left the game already. I admit some fights were fun like BWL kiting as a hunter was a lot of fun. Probably the most fun I have had since it utilized my whole skill set. That has not happened in a raid since then but because of that it was far too hard for other players to do the content. While I used to raid hardcore I stopped in cata and casually got some heroics on my shaman and have casually played. My problem with MoP style is its either all or nothing style raiding you either devote 15-20 hours raiding plus 20-30 doing other things for gear to clear normals and some heroics or you spend 20-30 hours raiding with 30-40 hours getting other gear for a full clear. While that was fun and all back in Vanilla grinding out loot. Loot was also not that much of a factor. It was on some fights but most of the fights you just needed to execute it right. I feel like they are making everything based off getting loot that takes far too long for a casual player.

I love all you guys that continue to play a game you hate so much. Holarious.

[Deleted]

I don't feel like this tier is bad though. It's a just a long one with 16 and some of them pretty hard bosses.

[Lord Blackmore]

You have an interesting approach to this thread. You do realise that WoW is all about raiding, just raiding and hence why most of the resources go into that, it does not matter whether 5% of people raid or 80%, the game was designed with raiding as the end game.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be wrong. Wow is not "all about raiding". A player doesn't have to set foot into a raid instance to be able to advance their character and enjoy the game once they get to max level. I have no idea why anybody still clings to the notion that WoW is the domain of the fraction of people who actually raid.

[Zaerick]

I love all you guys that continue to play a game you hate so much. Holarious.

I quit moron im expressing my reason why and the flaws of what WoW has turned into. I didn't know it was a crime to post on a game that you have quit. Or are you just ass-uming that everyone here still plays.

Infracted. Please don't insult other posters.

[Jaed]

We have been dealing with this since MoP hit. We are a very casual Raid Guild, still in HoF normal, but doing okay on our realm. Our problem this entire tier has been basically gearing people up and them moving on to a 25-man or a further progressed guild. Our problem happens to be DPS, we have 2 awesome tanks and 2 very solid healers with 2 that can off-heal. We rarely see a ranged interested, mellee seems to flock to us though. We are always low on DPS. We are unfortunate in that we have a few dead weight raiders that we bring to at least fill the ranks. They are so-so don't get me wrong, just not able to progress far when the same people die to Attunement, or tornadoes, or stepping on Garalons dang purple circle! We are actively recruiting, 3 of us do it for the most part, and because 5.2 is hitting soon noone is biting so we have pretty much stopped raiding til 5.2 and hope we pick up a few Raiders and can move forward.

[Lord Blackmore]

Source?

Pretty sure virtually everyone is doing LFR weekly, along with their grandma (who only has 1 hand ), then there are others who try and do weekly pugs/organised normal raids as well, and of course the elitist minority who have 20 mins to spare to read up on what to choose out of 6 talents and 3 glyphs to do good and stuff, who raid HMs.

It is a very small percentage of players who do no raiding at all/never done any rading at all. Regardless, raiding is the end game whether you like it or not, currently it is truly accessible to all, like it has never been previously.

Wow is still NOT "all about raiding". And seriously, LFR is barely raiding. It requires almost no skill. If it didn't exist lots of people wouldn't "raid" at all.

You seriously need to get the idea that wow is "all about" raiding out of your head. It's simply not true.

[Strlder]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be wrong. Wow is not "all about raiding". A player doesn't have to set foot into a raid instance to be able to advance their character and enjoy the game once they get to max level. I have no idea why anybody still clings to the notion that WoW is the domain of the fraction of people who actually raid.

WoW is designed to be all about raiding with a few extras thrown in along the way.

For some, the extras are more attractive than the main end-game and that is fine, it is why they are there to keep more people playing who may not be into the traditional mmo thang.

Still does not change the fact that this is how WoW is designed and what most of the work goes into.

Btw stating that only a fraction of people raid is an opinion, stating that WoW is designed as a PvE dragon slaying game is a fact. Think on it.

__

If WoW is not about raiding why is it that the main feature of every big patch is a new raid (and a pvp season to correlate the gear power and promote e-sports, pvp being the other main end-game which was added following player feedback)? Most other things in WoW are incidental to raiding (and to a lesser extent rated pvp).

[Lord Blackmore]

As to the topic of the thread, our guild is still going strong, but we've pretty much quit progression raiding. I took a long break several months before Pandaria and when I came back, there was only one organized raid night for normal mode raids and even then, people don't seem that interested. We didn't lose many people, though, since we weren't very serious about progression raiding.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 05:00 PM ----------

WoW is designed to be all about raiding with a few extras thrown in along the way.

I'm not sure how many different ways I can explain to you that you're wrong. WoW has -not- been "all about" raiding for a long time. Yes, I understand that raiding is an important component of the game. But the fact remains (yes fact) that a fraction of the player base raids and most people, if they don't are not progression raiding. I'd suspect that most of the "raids" people do are LFR.

If this were classic or TBC, I'd agree with you. The game used to be focused on what happens in the end game. But there are so many choices for people these days that raiding is just one aspect.

Btw stating that only a fraction of people raid is an opinion, stating that WoW is designed as a PvE dragon slaying game is a fact. Think on it.

It's pretty much common knowledge that only a small part of the player base raids. It's probably more now due to LFR, but this thread sort of shows the the desire for people to commit to raiding is declining.

[Mormolyce]

This happens all the time. Guilds break up or transfer and new ones are created. As you get "old" in the game you spend less time with random other people getting to know them and therefore have less connection to the newer guilds and more with the shrinking group of people you've played with for a long time. Thus you get the impression everyone is leaving the game. What you're not seeing is all the new guilds getting set up in their place. This was happening when you were new to the game as well.

[darklady]

I'm gonna just copy and paste something that I said in another thread:

"-LFR

A lot of casual raid groups of my realm quit raiding because of the LFR, and who can blame them? With the Raid Finder you don't need any kind of commitment and the content is exactly the same, so why should they keep raiding in normal mode? There's no motivation at all. With the LFR Blizzard killed the ultimate goal of the game and eventually gonna kill the community."

I disagree with this. I think LFR has wet the appitite of a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't raid at all.

[Otimus]

Source?

Pretty sure virtually everyone is doing LFR weekly, along with their grandma (who only has 1 hand ), then there are others who try and do weekly pugs/organised normal raids as well, and of course the elitist minority who have 20 mins to spare to read up on what to choose out of 6 talents and 3 glyphs to do good and stuff, who raid HMs.

It is a very small percentage of players who do no raiding at all/never done any rading at all. Regardless, raiding is the end game whether you like it or not, currently it is truly accessible to all, like it has never been previously.

I don't think he was counting LFR.

[Arbs]

Wow is still NOT "all about raiding". And seriously, LFR is barely raiding. It requires almost no skill. If it didn't exist lots of people wouldn't "raid" at all.

You seriously need to get the idea that wow is "all about" raiding out of your head. It's simply not true.

WoW is catered towards PvE more than PvP. PvP is just something that was added in after, WoW's main end game is PvE and has always has been.
I really don't think Blizzard care to much about PvP they just throw PvP a few bones once & a while.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 07:38 PM ----------

I quit moron im expressing my reason why and the flaws of what WoW has turned into. I didn't know it was a crime to post on a game that you have quit. Or are you just ass-uming that everyone here still plays.

Excuses, Its a simple question why are you here if you quit? Are you one of does people who lurk in the shadows that wait for posts like this. ??

[ShimmerSwirl]

I disagree with this. I think LFR has wet the appitite of a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't raid at all.

It wet and satisfied their appetite, leaving them hungry for nothing else. Thats when the cancellations start.

[Saphyron]

They kind of have that with brawlers club. Try getting to level 4 as a tank............

Did that rank 7 with blood dk. was insanely hard but i managed to pull it off.

OT:

Been reading through since my last post about the numbers.
I Agree DS was long but it does not change the fact that there was 13k guilds at 5.0 who had Heroic DS or killed a boss within a month.

Currently there is 30.152 guilds with a kill within a month or HC sha Which means there is twice as many raiding guilds active at the end of the tier.

Yes there was more guilds that killed morchok normal than Stone Guards Normal. just a little bit under twice as many BUT!. DS is still getting tracked to this day. So unless you have a snapshot from when DS was current that number is not fitting. There is also a high chance that new guilds made in msit went back and cleared DS cause they wanted achivement or transmog or something else.
Also Morchok Normal was faceroll. At least Stone guards requires the tanks to think or 2-3 insanely good healers that can heal through all unintended explosions.

To take an example. Yes im a casual raider 2x4 hours per week with 3/16 hc progress
I left the game at start of cata raided alot in icc. Joined when DS came out. First day in 346 heroic dungeon gear me and my guildies werent even close to 370 average ilvl we managed to kill Morchok one shot without really thinking.
Now with stone guards. yes we had some problems so we started raiding about 1 month after release but it took us 16 tries before the tanks got the correct rotation down for taunting and we downed him. and we were 450-472 ilvl back then.

Well any case this shows that at the end of the tier there is more people raiding atm.
But yearh the guilds that have trouble with recruitment or lack of people (like mine) either move to another server or merge with another guild.
I am on Xavius-EU, we had around 60 active raiding guild from start on it, now we have like 20 at the most where as at least 10 guilds on alliance side joined a guild called deus ex.
We have 4 alliance guilds now we are actually making progress and around 10 horde guilds. Rest is making pug runs in trade and never really getting any bosses down.

Its true that guild leave the server and or stop all together but that is mostly (in my oppinion) that they were guilds used to the faceroll DS and when they got a real challenge they though it was the guilds fault and not their own and left in frustation or joined another guild/server in hope of getting carried or finding a better progressed guild which they thought would better suit their skills(which they have none of).

Where were i going with this ohh well can't remember its 03:00 am and im tired as fuck and waiting for server to go back up so i can get my weekly valor cap on 3 chars and do lfr on 2 in hope of actually seeing my items drop for once.

see in signatur for armory if above you don't belieave

[Ravenyx]

Maybe if people didn't have to run dozens of dailies to grind rep to access gear vendors people would have time to actually play the game. Just my two cents.

[Saphyron]

Maybe if people didn't have to run dozens of dailies to grind rep to access gear vendors people would have time to actually play the game. Just my two cents.

I have not done a daily in over 3 month. dailies is not needed never were.
Those who think they were thinks because they want a reason why they either suck or a reason so they can whine.

Yes Im not full heroic cleared, yes im not the best of my class. BUT i get new bosses down from time to time. And have fun while doing it.

And even if I wanted to there is nothing from valor that is an upgrade for my priest.
There is for my dk or hunter but im not taking those two as serious as my main and whatever valor i had on my dk was used to upgrade current normal mode gear.

[Osmeric]

It wet and satisfied their appetite, leaving them hungry for nothing else. Thats when the cancellations start.

Or when you work on your next alt!

I valor capped four characters last week. This is a bit time consuming.

[judgementofantonidas]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be wrong. Wow is not "all about raiding". A player doesn't have to set foot into a raid instance to be able to advance their character and enjoy the game once they get to max level. I have no idea why anybody still clings to the notion that WoW is the domain of the fraction of people who actually raid.

To become one of the heroes of our land Azeroth you do. Normally the evils that threaten us will not be found in your garden, or mid poke man battle. They are found in the bastions of power and lair where that evil lurks waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting 80%.

[Deleted]

Source?

Pretty sure virtually everyone is doing LFR weekly, along with their grandma (who only has 1 hand ), then there are others who try and do weekly pugs/organised normal raids as well, and of course the elitist minority who have 20 mins to spare to read up on what to choose out of 6 talents and 3 glyphs to do good and stuff, who raid HMs.

It is a very small percentage of players who do no raiding at all/never done any rading at all. Regardless, raiding is the end game whether you like it or not, currently it is truly accessible to all, like it has never been previously.

While LFR has no doubt made raiding much more accessible (although many people wouldn't consider it 'proper' raiding, given its watering down), most players never even reach max level, let alone raid. I don't know where to dig around to find the precise figures but a fair few people playing don't have all the expansions (I've met some) and by Blizz's own admissions (albeit a few years back) 30% of trial accounts never make it past level 10.

[Deleted]

Funny, because wowprogress says otherwise.

According to wow progress, 39545 guilds killed Stone Guards, and 62648 killed Morchok.

If there are so many people raiding, why 23k more guils killed Morchok than Stone Guards?

http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier13

http://www.wowprogress.com/

Dont fool yourself, tier 14 is not that successful.

Also 71186 guilds killed Magmaw.

to the people claiming that the has been a lot of new guilds that have killed morchok since MoP came out i can tell you that last summer there was a post where people looked at how many guilds where left and the number of total guilds having killed morchok was 62.6k.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...n-dying/page22