my guild started expansion with 10 man team, now we have 3 teams +plus lots of pvp/casual plaers. Don't see any issue tbh.
and all this talk about "it's not worth to raid now because t15 lfr gear will be better" is such a bullshit. You might aswell never play and wait for last wow expansion and last tier of it.
It has always happened.
People forget BC was nicknamed "The Guild Killer"
@Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.
Yeah because like 6% of guilds have completed content, maybe even less. I consider my guild pretty good and we're 10/16 HC right now, no chance of finishing..
Back in my day, we killed bosses 400 times a day...uphill both ways...in the snow...and we fucking liked it. In related news, I hear that uninstalling WoW completely from your hard drive and then reinstalling it resets your RNG numbers. -septor
I don't even consider myself (and a fair number of people in my group) top nosh raiders, but we are 15/16 HC.
HC last boss is supposed to be like the rare few % of very top guild only, if I somehow managed to kill it within next 2 weeks then I probably considered too easy, as I don't think I should be good enough for that kill.
I have since stopped playing WoW since December because I got tired of the bad players within the guild. Being in a 10 man group, it was easy to see who would be dragging their feet through progression and rather than it being one bad apple, it turned out to be three or four who consistently made raiding much more painful than it needed to be. Whether it was the lack of understanding their class, tunnel vision, or just being bad in general, it just became too much and took all the enjoyment out of raiding which is what I played for.
As an example to some of their quality, I sat in on Vent last week to hear how things were going and out GM/RL was still explaining how the Guardians fight worked to some players who have been doing it for months and months. I wish I could say this only happens on Guardians (and even that's embarrassing) but it happened for every boss. I facepalmed hard and realized how they can still be 6/16 [normal] since I left.
Now, from what I understand, some of the better players in the guild raid with another guild on a Saturday with their alts and clear content no problem, even going in to heroics. What they and their alts do in a day equals to the full progression and months of work with our guild and it just leaves me stunned. Even pugs are turning away at this point when our GM calls out for slots to fill because the pugs know they can get in on better runs if they wait a little.
Case in point, some players such as myself just got fed up with having to carry the bad players. I respect the guild as a whole and the handful of good players within it but it just became too much of a burden to play with others who needed explanation time and time again and half-assed their way through. Benching players becomes nearly impossible with a small pool of quality or even decent pugs and when the pugs begin to turn your offer down to fill a slot, well, you either cancel the raid or go with what you have and hope for the best.
It really depends on your server, I think. Top servers look just as good or better than ever, but on your average or below average server, there really isn't much you can do unless your guild is a stand-out guild and you recruit from another realm, and if you aren't like 12/16H or better no fucks will be given about your guild. I thought my server was depressing during Cata but it's just downright horrible now, and there are somehow like 75ish US servers worse than ours. I see a huge spread of talent from really good to really horrible in the few guilds that are on my server that are into heroic progression, and there are clearly some talented players that are being held back because they have people in there that are just filling the spot, basically, because there is no one better to do it. That includes my own guild.
I feel a lot of this is because the talent is so spread out due to 10 man guilds. When you had 25 back in Wrath and prior, you couldn't just start a new guild with some random people out of the blue and expect to get anywhere, growing a guild was a long process. Nowadays is seems that everyone thinks starting a new guild is a great idea instead of trying to join an existing one to make it better.
Last edited by PBitt; 2013-02-15 at 10:09 PM.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson
same here many guilds have just stopped raiding including my last guild
It should always have been like Sunwell, KJ, only the very top guilds should have been able to kill, and Algalon.
If even I can just step in and kill Sha HC, I would feel it is too easy, as I don't think people of my calibre should be able to.
OP noticed 3 guilds falling apart and that is..like "lots"? Dunno..isn't that "anecdotal evidence". I have noticed people claiming all kinds of things and also claiming any new feature introduced "killing guilds"
Ah well..at least now with nostalgia "My guild broke on M'uru" is a badge of honor and nowadays used as a "this x-pac sucks because my guild didn't break up" argument as for how fantastic TBC was.
People on forums are weird...
---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 11:29 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 11:36 PM ----------
The only difference used to be (in TBC) that you needed yout T1 to do T2 and your..oh wait...5 man nat res gear to tackle T 2.5 and your attunements to progress in T4 and T5 and T6
Last edited by det; 2013-02-15 at 10:31 PM.
"It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."
— Alan Moore
No it is not. That's the point of my statement. Many people raid for the purples but do not enjoy the process.well yeah, it's kinda obvious, isn't it? You are not a part of raiding guild if you don't like it.
These are the peeps that constantly state that wiping on a boss isn't fun and ask that the boss is nerfed so they can collect their loot faster.
These also are the first "raiders" to drop activity if a new Tier is announced. (Sudden real life issues until new patch is deployed)
Our server died which caused vodka to leave and our guild to disband. There is only 1 guild who even raids anymore and I am now the highest experienced player with a main on the server. And i'm only 2100. It's pretty sad.
That's what causes all the QQ about guilds not progressing fast enough...it's not to do with the current tier being too hard, it's to do with the previous 2 tiers being too easy. (T12/13 in this case when compared to T14, and T9/10 when compared to T11)
(hopefully I'm wrong about this and they've dropped the Cata progression model, I definitely don't want to be clearing the place on normal within a week)
Why should I commit to a set bunch of nights and times to log on anyways? I can just as easily queue up for a LFR if the mood strikes, and not be tied down. Hell, I can even decide to do only one boss and log and still be able to go back and finish the rest at my own pace.
That is why you guys are having a hard time recruiting and keeping players.
Can't blame them. This teir is rather boring. For the first time in years i was bored of raiding so i stopped as well. I raided all ICC and all DS and didn't get bored and they were out for a year and the other for months. Yet i was bored of this teir in 3 weeks and yes i did get some heroic bosses down. There are also alot of people i know that have also raided for years that have stopped. By boring i mean the fight mechanics are the some ones that have been used in bosses years ago. Hell some didn't even make it one teir before being reused.
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