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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by lazymangaka View Post
    I would gladly give up a major glyph spot to a glyph removing Avenging Wrath's graphic.
    That wouldn't help in arena. Either your opponents could use gladiatorlos or addons that display CDs used, or they will see the icon on your target anyway.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    That wouldn't help in arena. Either your opponents could use gladiatorlos or addons that display CDs used, or they will see the icon on your target anyway.
    Sure it doesn't do a lot against a higher rated player but as it is you don't even have to think for yourself against a Ret just wait for wings and CC him then he is useless. Some spell effects are grossly over done and some effects aren't even visible and you have to pay attention to their buffs why is that the case?

    There are a number of things fouled up about this spec from small to big problem is they all get overlooked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  3. #23
    Well.. at least they're trying to do something.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Well.. at least they're trying to do something.
    Yeah I suppose so. I just really wish they had made Execution Sentence Ret-only to begin with... it's perfect, 1 min cooldown, and can be heavily tweaked and augmented if it were Ret only. A giant hammer slowly looming over someone a HPally is trying to heal or over a tank trying to defend himself is just so stupid anyway.

  5. #25
    I don't see how making AW 2min (like it always has been since BC) a change.
    Our 4pt14 was the only reason not to let us rot on a bench, whereas it was baseline until MOP...

    AW should have been 2min forever and our sustain damage may be easily tuned via censure (longer duration to 20sec for switching/movement and slightly higher damage). And our sword of light 2H weapon buffed to 15% and voilà. I really don't see how hard it is to buff paladins to a right place.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Most specs have some burst and some defensive CD... I just track it with Platebuffs and CC on burst and switch on defensive than switch back... agreed about how graphic can make a diference on lower ratings.

    If the guy have the skill to CC you while bursted than he might have the skill to know if you have your CDs up. Of course shining golden wings doesn't help anyway... therefore I get trink and bubble ready and a healer close for dispel and macro: /ROAR /Y I STAND FOR THE LIGHT! so everybody can get a tissue for the nerd rage crying they're about to have.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    I don't see how making AW 2min (like it always has been since BC) a change.
    Our 4pt14 was the only reason not to let us rot on a bench, whereas it was baseline until MOP...

    AW should have been 2min forever and our sustain damage may be easily tuned via censure (longer duration to 20sec for switching/movement and slightly higher damage). And our sword of light 2H weapon buffed to 15% and voilà. I really don't see how hard it is to buff paladins to a right place.
    The problem is they want Ret Paladins to make a conscious decision between Censure and SoJ. Buffing Censure just makes us want to use SoT in PvP also.
    I hope they make SoJ 20%. I'd totally use it. Slight dps loss for a snare? Fuck yeah.

    Besides, that's burstier than SoT too.

  8. #28
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    Want to fix Ret's sustained damage? Option is so obvious. Holy Power is just a shiny version of combo points right? I remember being on my Mut rogue a while back and when you'd do Envenom (your main spammable finisher like TV is), it'd refresh Slice and Dice (your big damage buff like Inquisition). That way you still have to charge up Inquisition but once it's up, it's pretty easy to keep it up for free with TV. It'd still fall off if you did nothing but WoG or didn't hit someone for a while (you can't even just use 1HP TV to refresh it), so I see that as a perfectly sensible and pleasant change of pace to having to reapply Inquisition 30 seconds into beating someone down.

    That doesn't really make your burst hit harder. Doesn't make cooldown stacking better and just makes playing Ret so much smoother and less irritating. This change, while nice to stack with Ashbringer CD, does not really buff sustained damage whatsoever. I think I may have been the only person who actually liked the stacking TV debuff...just once I wanted to stack it up and blow all my CDs on some bad healer that just sits there LOLing at my damage and one-shot him. Just seeing it happen once and hearing demands for nerfs to it would've made me laugh.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    The problem is they want Ret Paladins to make a conscious decision between Censure and SoJ. Buffing Censure just makes us want to use SoT in PvP also.
    I hope they make SoJ 20%. I'd totally use it. Slight dps loss for a snare? Fuck yeah.

    Besides, that's burstier than SoT too.
    The problem is that there is no commitment between seals. If they buff Seal of Justice too much, then people will be seal switching ALL the time, even in PVE - even if Seal of Justice is not buffed to be competitive with Seal of Truth by itself. It's difficult to find that middle-ground.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    The problem is that there is no commitment between seals. If they buff Seal of Justice too much, then people will be seal switching ALL the time, even in PVE - even if Seal of Justice is not buffed to be competitive with Seal of Truth by itself. It's difficult to find that middle-ground.
    That's why I'm a staunch believer that SoJ should make Judgment apply Mind-numbing or perhaps the denounce effect or something. Maybe not -100% crit chance, but like halve the targets crit chance for 3-4 seconds.

  11. #31
    New Ret 4pc = Your TV now costs 2 Holy Power (this effect is inactive when Holy Avenger or Holy Wrath are active).

    Yeah, we wish...
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-02-16 at 02:12 AM.

  12. #32
    Sure it doesn't do a lot against a higher rated player but as it is you don't even have to think for yourself against a Ret just wait for wings and CC him then he is useless. Some spell effects are grossly over done and some effects aren't even visible and you have to pay attention to their buffs why is that the case?
    At 'higher' ratings you tend to wait until you're under some or full effects from DR before using your offensive CD's. The same can be said for many classes and their offensive abilities being obvious, I sure do realise when a Warrior uses their CD's(without looking at their buffs) and they don't complain about it.

    I think this is a great change and I am liking the idea of the new, new seal of Justice. A little bit of damage loss in exchange for 50% snare is definitely worth the exchange. Hopefully we get a little more love in the coming weeks.

  13. #33
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
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    First and foremost they need to address our damage without our CDs up. When wings isnt up we're useless, when wings is up we're CC'd. We need 2h weapon specialization back and a big buff to censure damage at least. I think we have enough utility if we just did more damage without our CDs.

    Same issue persists in PvE, pure burst and shit dps when we're on CD.

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  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayo View Post
    At 'higher' ratings you tend to wait until you're under some or full effects from DR before using your offensive CD's. The same can be said for many classes and their offensive abilities being obvious, I sure do realise when a Warrior uses their CD's(without looking at their buffs) and they don't complain about it.

    I think this is a great change and I am liking the idea of the new, new seal of Justice. A little bit of damage loss in exchange for 50% snare is definitely worth the exchange. Hopefully we get a little more love in the coming weeks.
    What room would a Warrior exactly have to complain about? Exactly nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  15. #35
    Personally I like the idea of Seal of Justice adding damage to Templar's Verdict. I say they should introduce a new Seal, but leave the old Seal of Justice with the 20% weapon damage. New Seal will be the increase to Templar's Verdict. That way you can let the players choose what they think works best. If the increase to Templar's Verdict seems like an unpopular idea then you can remove it in the next expansion. More Seal choices aren't necessarily bad.

    Tasters choice I say.

  16. #36
    I would like to see them add Seal of Command back into the game for Ret. Simply make it so it increases the damage of your Templar's verdict by 50%. No stacks or anything crazy like it being holy damage. Just a straight up buff to Templar's Verdict.

    That would give us 3 options. Seal of Truth for "sustained", Seal of Justice (for slightly more burst than SoT and a snare), and Seal of Command for more burst.

  17. #37
    I will repeat myself again: I am afraid of direct pvp buffs like this one, they mean Ret will remain completely useless as dps class in PVE.

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    I think War is balanced for sustained damage and have a burst talent. And Ret is balanced arround burst and have a sustained talent (DP) but our sustained is not reliable so we have a problem. Make Divine Purpose give a proc every 2 TVs/WoGs and we have sustained (DP) AND burst (AW).

    Ret IS a burst spec and that's great - is our trademark. The problem is only being good with CDs up. We have 2 burst talents and 1 sustained. Make AH a 1min for 9secs and the above Divine Purpose and there is no more problem about it.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post

    1) Ret PVP Utility - a spell like smoke/grip/solar/etc
    Yep, these are fantastic abiltiies and we DEFINITELY need to see more of those in the game.
    2) Better survivability/self heals/remove fear or stun/another CC to compete
    Yep, more stuns and instant CC please! Wow, you are just full of original and impressive ideas.

    Have you ever thought of going into game development?

    This level of sarcasm is unnecessary, and it adds nothing to the topic. Please be more constructive in the future. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-02-16 at 04:56 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lazymangaka View Post
    I would gladly give up a major glyph spot to a glyph removing Avenging Wrath's graphic.
    People don't need a visual to know that you Avenging Wrathed. It's called addons; and a big buff on you that says AVENGING WRATH!
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

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