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  1. #81
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    you already have AOE blind you dont need smoke from rogues
    120 min blind that any DoT or AoE removes, last for 6 secs. Even a bad one like War Fear is 234987329487329 better since is on 90 secs CD, lasts for 8 secs and sends ALL enemies to the other side of the arena/BG out of range and LoS 90% of time plus this break with almost nothing. Think Priests have this on 30 secs CD. Locks?

    And Smoke with a stun is the same as CC on all healers whatever they are at the same time with no dispel and no trinket. Do you even PVP?
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    120 min blind that any DoT or AoE removes, last for 6 secs. Even a bad one like War Fear is 234987329487329 better since is on 90 secs CD, lasts for 8 secs and sends ALL enemies to the other side of the arena/BG out of range and LoS 90% of time plus this break with almost nothing. Think Priests have this on 30 secs CD. Locks?

    And Smoke with a stun is the same as CC on all healers whatever they are at the same time with no dispel and no trinket. Do you even PVP?
    thank you for putting a smile on my face

  3. #83
    far from a fix. but glad the OP is so excited about it...
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  4. #84
    This isnt a fix???? wtf everyone calm down. AW was originally 2 min, then got extended. This is not fixing ANYTHING for paladins. This wont make us wanted in RBGs and it still wont bring anything to the pvp scene that a holy pally cant.

    Ret will still be broken unless they give us some serious utility and stop giving it all to monks ffs.

  5. #85
    fixes it? not really, but at least they are putting some effort in to resolving the issues.

  6. #86
    wings was 2 min in TBC

    wings was 2 min in WOTLK

    wings was 2 min in CATA

    wings is 3 min in MOP

    and now to to help us they will make wings 2 min

    u was poor but have 1 $ they took that $ from u then give it to u again and say look how much we are generous with u

  7. #87
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Think of a burst every 1 min: AW, HA, AW, HA... Ret had that on past expansions? Think Pillar of Frost.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  8. #88
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    The only way most rets will adopt the burst every minute playstyle that your suggesting crono, is if each cooldown causes a 1 minute restriction to prevent them from all being used at once. Otherwise its just the same wings guardian HA trinket zerg macro business as usual, only more frequently.

    Would you believe that on the PTR right now many people actually believe that rets are overpowered? They reason they think that is our burst of course, and getting more wings is only going to hurt our argument that ret is in need of serious help. In otherwords, getting the wrong buffs ultimately lowers our chances of getting the correct buffs.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    Would you believe that on the PTR right now many people actually believe that rets are overpowered? They reason they think that is our burst of course, and getting more wings is only going to hurt our argument that ret is in need of serious help. In otherwords, getting the wrong buffs ultimately lowers our chances of getting the correct buffs.
    Well put.

    Getting buffed in the wrong areas doesn't really help with our obvious flaws and weaknesses.

    It is also pretty obvious that most people who prefer our "burst" over sustained damaged are mainly people who do PVE content and little real PVP content.

    I do both Pve and PvP, and I really don't find our damage exceptional. You got to love watching your DPS start out as number one on the meters at the beginning of a fight due to blowing all your CDs, then watching it plummet in between CDs. Then BOOM, pop your CDs, watch your DPS go back up, plummet again in between CDs, rinse, repeat.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    The only way most rets will adopt the burst every minute playstyle that your suggesting crono, is if each cooldown causes a 1 minute restriction to prevent them from all being used at once. Otherwise its just the same wings guardian HA trinket zerg macro business as usual, only more frequently.
    Thats true if you have full uptime during cooldowns. Using them both gives very nice damage output. But as most people said our enemies CC us or use defensive cooldowns for that 20 secs. If you go 1min route you are more likely to dps your target. So using the cooldowns seperetly can be more beneficial depending on the situation.

    And a buff is a buff. There are no wrong buffs. As long as ret is viable who care if we dont have sustained damage other melees have. I dont like being too much cooldown dependent but if blizzard finds a way to make it work its ok. This is a big buff imo.

  11. #91
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    I agree with Trisrx about the point when there is wrong buffs the right ones never comes, only qq and nerfs.

    Still, about CD stacking: it's about how people want to play it. If you have a talent that spreads damage via rng, a talent that give you another burst, and then guardian... you can use it to SPREAD the damage and do SUSTAINED but you rather stack and do a 20 secs ULTRA BURST, than there is no reason to qq about the lack of sustained. Sustained is there, the problem is the greedy stupid players that only wanna play with a KILL MACRO.

    Look at how our damage would work stacking/speading CDs and with SW:

    SW: = 3,25
    http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3782/65089147.png

    HA: = 2,20
    http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2516/65203426.png

    Avng: = 2,50
    http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7793/avng.png

    HA with Avng: = 3,15
    http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6228/haavng.png

    HA and then Avng: = 4,70
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  12. #92
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be nice if Paladins had some fear immunity? It plays well with the lore of the class. A warlocks fear shouldnt scare a paladin of the light or at least it shouldnt be as effective...

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 06:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    I agree with Trisrx about the point when there is wrong buffs the right ones never comes, only qq and nerfs.

    Still, about CD stacking: it's about how people want to play it. If you have a talent that spreads damage via rng, a talent that give you another burst, and then guardian... you can use it to SPREAD the damage and do SUSTAINED but you rather stack and do a 20 secs ULTRA BURST, than there is no reason to qq about the lack of sustained. Sustained is there, the problem is the greedy stupid players that only wanna play with a KILL MACRO.

    Look at how our damage would work stacking/speading CDs and with SW:

    SW: = 3,25
    http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3782/65089147.png

    HA: = 2,20
    http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2516/65203426.png

    Avng: = 2,50
    http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7793/avng.png

    HA with Avng: = 3,15
    http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6228/haavng.png

    HA and then Avng: = 4,70
    Its a great idea but having another 5 abilities with modifiers or their own keys is very unappealing..

    I see a lot of people taking Fist of Justice over Burden of Guilt too and I have to wonder why. Long arm of the Law + Burden of Guilt is a great combination for a slow and a gap closer while still having HoJ and using SoT. Fist of Justice never felt that strong to me. Maybe its a preference or maybe Im misinformed idk..
    Last edited by Eugenik; 2013-02-17 at 07:06 PM.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  13. #93
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    Oh I think your absolutely right Crono about spreading the CDs, I have actually been doing that myself for a while now. I guess my concern is that many rets will never think to spread them, and we might get nerfed in the future as a result. I actually am happy to see wings back at 2 minutes, at least for now. I think if they made it so you cant stack multiple DPS CDs, it would greatly benefit ret in the bigger picture.

    And Eugenik, paladins did at one time have some defenses against fear. It was a holy talent called unyielding faith, and it was easily reachable by ret and prot. In burning crusade, it provided a 10% chance to fully resist fear or disorient effects, in wraith it reduced the duration of fear and disorient effects by 30%. This talent disappeared in cata, and is just one of the many great things ret has lost since then. There was a talent just like it only for stuns that disappeared as well.

  14. #94
    Okay so I've been thinking about the issue of Seal of Justice and its lack of damage while being CC'd and I had yet another epiphany. This is building on the third iteration, the one that's likely to be the most balanced out of the three I had provided earlier and this problem can be remedied by doing the following:

    -Seal of Justice refreshes Censure stacks on the target
    -Paladins can switch seals while CC'd

    These changes would allow a Ret paladin to stack Censure on a target and then switch to Seal of Justice to keep Censure up. If Seal of Justice is at 25% weapon damage, it still won't do as much as Seal of Truth with Censure being reduced by 80%. The kicker here is that because it refreshes the Censure stacks, when the Ret Paladin gets CC'd, with these two changes, they can switch to Seal of Truth if they expect to be CC'd for a while. This allows Censure to tick for full damage while being CC'd. If the Ret Paladin is not CC'd for too long they could Judgment to keep Censure up until they get back to their target, at which point they can switch back to Seal of Justice, reducing Censure damage by 80% again.

  15. #95
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    I don't think they'll implement some complex mechanic for it, Reeth... they might just make SoJ deal at least 15% less damage and forget about it... maybe remove censure with seal swap and done. If they had all this good will they'd fix the spec already, not the "We will look into it for the future" thing=/
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  16. #96
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if Paladins had some fear immunity? It plays well with the lore of the class. A warlocks fear shouldnt scare a paladin of the light or at least it shouldnt be as effective...

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-17 at 06:57 PM ----------



    Its a great idea but having another 5 abilities with modifiers or their own keys is very unappealing..

    I see a lot of people taking Fist of Justice over Burden of Guilt too and I have to wonder why. Long arm of the Law + Burden of Guilt is a great combination for a slow and a gap closer while still having HoJ and using SoT. Fist of Justice never felt that strong to me. Maybe its a preference or maybe Im misinformed idk..
    Because the first fist will usually force a trinket and you can then fist the same target 3 times into CC chains over the course of their trinkets cooldown. Fist into a cyclone into a poly into a counterspell into a cyclone, etc. Its nice because it's ranged and you dont have to run to your target, and its half CD. The problem with my example is 90% of the CC comes from people other than the pally. Lol.

  17. #97
    Avenging Wrath has ALWAYS been 3 minutes. We just had a talent to reduce it. sigh

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrasibion View Post
    Avenging Wrath has ALWAYS been 3 minutes. We just had a talent to reduce it. sigh
    Well, meaning it was essentially 2 minutes. The talent to reduce it had other effects, they could have just made it 2 minutes for Ret but didn't have many non-talent passives back in the day if any. But yeah, this change really just brings us back to pre-MOP. I still find it funny that the first patch in MoP, our PvE 4 set gives us something we had in the past and now this change on our PvP set bonus.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrasibion View Post
    Avenging Wrath has ALWAYS been 3 minutes. We just had a talent to reduce it. sigh
    Which means for a maxed level ret, it's always been 2 minutes. Use your common sense before trying to make everyone seem dumb please. No one played with no talent points used.

    Crono, I understand what you're asking for, but before Ret gets some nice new toys and tools thrown into their toolkit, the other classes have to have theirs assessed. And currently, that stands at far too many in other classes.
    Last edited by DeathOfRa; 2013-02-17 at 11:44 PM. Reason: Pesky spelling errors

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathOfRa View Post
    Which means for a maxed level ret, it's always been 2 minutes. Use your common sense before trying to make everyone seem dumb please. No one played with no talent points used.

    Crono, I understand what you're asking for, but before Ret gets some nice new toys and tools thrown into their toolkit, the other classes have to have theirs accessed. And currently, that stands at far too many in other classes.
    Yeah, Sanctified Wrath was always a must-take talent... it always came with a buff to Hammer of Wrath as well, so everyone always had 2 min wings.

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