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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Foomy View Post
    Or bring smth like an active "Eye for an Eye". Undispellable buff that lasts some sec and reflects all CCs back to the respective casters.
    if they make make clemency baseline and then add this.

    Hand of Retribution
    replaces hand of salvation.
    60 seconds cooldown.
    duration 5 seconds
    Places a Hand on the party or raid member, reflecting up to 2 effects which cause lose of control of your character. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time.
    replaces hand of salvation which has no use for pvp anyway and gives us more choice. clemency will keep HoS on it but won't gain Hand of Retribution.

    EDIT: for holy they could give it a different effect. maybe reflect damage instead.
    Last edited by gildra; 2013-02-18 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #122
    High Overlord Strear's Avatar
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    Something like " Reflects spell and silences the caster for 3 seconds " would be great too

  3. #123
    i beleive a 20% wep dmg buff is coming to the PTR

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Tom Chilton. Pretty sure he's still in charge of PvP, they just don't let him talk on the forums anymore because back in BC he said stupid things like "my Warrior is gonna be rocking his S3 weapon in no time" right after they added the ratings requirements that basically meant reroll-or-die for hybrid DPS.
    Don't forget his frost mage who was ripping it up too. That mfer cheated and should have been FIRED for it, not promoted....wtf. Throw him in front of a moving bus and get it over with already.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Tom Chilton. Pretty sure he's still in charge of PvP, they just don't let him talk on the forums anymore because back in BC he said stupid things like "my Warrior is gonna be rocking his S3 weapon in no time" right after they added the ratings requirements that basically meant reroll-or-die for hybrid DPS.
    Yeah, he basically came off as arrogant and prejudiced every time he spoke on the forums, and clearly expressed that he doesn't give a crap that basically all hybrid dps are useless in arena. He more or less is rumored to want pure specs to be the only viable dps in PvP, anyone who can heal should heal, and all of the hybrid specs to be cheerleaders for frost mages, warriors, ect... Obviously Blizzard began to see that this attitude can no longer be publicly displayed due to fears of losing customers, so they made Ghostcrawler the new public face of Blizzard because he's a bit more diplomatic.

  6. #126
    Decided to make a test Paladin on the PTR, since my copy character doesn't seem to be working. From what I can see with new Seal of Justice is that it hits nearly as hard as Templar's Verdict, and ramps up pretty quickly. This is with a pre-made Paladin with blue gear and no enchants. Maybe the difference is bigger in epics?

    I'd really hate to see this replaced with the old Seal of Justice. No matter what, I could never justify using Seal of Justice just for the slow. Yes I do switch to it in PvP, but it's like me switching to Seal of Righteous in PvE. I hope to make a difference, but I'm just kidding myself. My only compromise is that each stack of Justice debuff also slows the target, but once TV is used and consumes the stacks, the slow is removed as well.

  7. #127
    ur givine a burden to the class to watch all his buffs , wich is nearly impossible , we already have to track our holy power Generator , Inquisition , and now by switching seals it force u to track SoT and Soj together along with his cds !!!!

  8. #128
    Its okay.
    But it hasn't really solved anything. The main idea should have been to buff our sustain damage, not lower the cd for wings.

  9. #129
    While I was coming back from breakfast, I thought of a few ways to make Retribution... More like retribution.

    For one, Hammer of Wrath is no longer tied to an execute phase in PvP, PvE will stay the same. It's any time your health is lower than your target. In addition, when the Justice snare is active (or burden of guilt), hammer of wrath will root, for five seconds. This effect would only occur every 30 seconds per target.
    Another thing we've been searching for but just haven't found is something we can bring to the table that Holy can't. Therefor, Blessing of Retribution (or Wrath, following the "retribution" theme) would work.

    Blessing of Retribution
    15% of Maximum Mana (40 yd Range)
    You place a blessing on your target, causing any attack that does over 10% of your maximum health to be reflected for 30% of the damage done. Retribution paladins gain a greater effect than their allies. The effect can only occur every 10 seconds. You may only have one blessing active per paladin. Blessing of Retribution cannot reflect another Blessing of Retribution.
    (50% for retribution paladins)

    This would make ret a choice to have with your team in offense or defense in RBGs, and would deter training a ret paladin off the bat in arena.

    Another change would be that any time wings are off cooldown, suffering a crowd control effect would reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds, up to a maximum of 1 minute. This does not reset upon death. While they're active, the paladin is immune to stuns, and all crowd control effects are reduced by 60%, and for 30 seconds following Avenging Wrath, the paladin gains a buff called "Unending Wrath" which will work by making crowd control have a 20% lesser effect, like Monk's new CC breaker.

    Retribution also will cause Hand of Salvation to turn into Hand of Wrath, which will cause you to instantly apply censure (max stacks) and justice to your active target, depending on your seal. Switching a seal will erase this. 30s cooldown. This can erase other target's active hands, but only once per minute.

    Also, to address the sustained problem. While Avenging Wrath is on cooldown, if the player's health is lower than the target's health, Crusader Strike, Judgment, and Exorcism do 25% extra damage as holy, and are effected by mastery. Additionally, using Exorcism while Art of War is procced, Inquisition's duration will be increased by 10 seconds, to a maximum of 40 seconds. This will aid in the constant ramp-up time while wings are down and let us throw more Templar's Verdicts at targets, but, it'll be disabled while wings are up, unless you spec into Sanctified Wrath, so that'll become more attractive for a retribution paladin.

    And finally. Ret's wretched forbearance debuff. Righteous Fury for Ret should be changed to an active skill that would reset forbearance on your friendly target, with a five minute cooldown. This will no reset any of the cooldowns of the abilities that trigger it, and would put them on a 10s cooldown so you can't just spam hand of protection for 20s to run from the warrior. It also won't let you use it if there is no forbearance active on the target.

    These changes would make Retribution more like Retribution it should be, and not the current glass canon with a 3 minute reload time we have running around.
    Opinions? Suggestions? Too overpowered? Not enough focus on a certain spot?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    i beleive a 20% wep dmg buff is coming to the PTR
    Any source here, or wishful thinking?

    I think it's kinda funny, in a sad, depressing sort of way, that half of our "buffs" for 5.2 are just un-nerfs of existing items:

    1) Wings goes from being 120sec CD to 180 sec in MoP (yes, it WAS 180 sec CD in WotLK too, but nobody DIDN'T take the talent, so it was, effectively, 120sec). Now, we get wings BACK to 120sec through set bonus of t14 and PVP. However, those bonuses are now "taken" by this un-nerf, which is effecitvely a nerf in itself, since we're "missing" the set bonuses we would have had otherwise.

    2) SoJ 1.0 -> SoJ 2.0. Maybe the design was good on paper, but it was terrible in practice. Now, we get SoJ 1.0 BACK, as a "fix".

    Other notable changes:

    Absolve - despite COUNTLESS requests to put this effect on Salv rather than Sacrifice (an already useful utility spell), we get this new ability shoved into HoSac. 10 pounds of utility in a 5 pound bag. Hope you didn't wanna break a CC, cause you already cleansed your partner! Also, hope you didn't want to take anything besides Clemency! But hey, at least you can take Salv off your bars in PVP!

    GoTV - 10% dmg redux now applies to Exo casts AND TV hits. Can't say anything bad about this; this glyph is honestly the first and only BUFF we got for 5.2. 10% passsive dmg redux is nice, though if it is enough to make a difference it ret's overall survival (given our weakness to disarm, silence, stun, fear, and mass dispel) remains to be seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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    20k and counting...

  11. #131
    With our current 4p being replaced (HP when taking direct damage on a 8sec CD) and us gaining a 2min AW I don't feel this really solves anything. Ye 2min AW is great but still means we do nothing but off heal and pillar hump for 2 minutes instead of three, ok it gives us a more viable option to spread CD's but then kill pressure isn't as high. An now we will be losing out a quite a bit of passive HP which was nice for consistent damage and healing during downtime.

    This change would have been great if made a passive instead of taking something away from us, not sure why every ret "buff" needs to have strings attached "Well we are going to do this for you but in place take this other useful thing away" while other classes actually get things to help them nostrings. I feel buffing SoJ was a interesting route to take but risky to affect seal twisting and PvE, SoJ needs to be PvP only if it was to be changed I feel, so why not something along the lines of giving SoJ a PvP Power modifier when active, this means we can use choose between SoT for the dot or SoJ for the higher consistent damage overall not only that but with PvP Power increasing our healing next patch as well this would help our utility out. Heck or even giving back old SoJ where it had the chance to stun means we could probably go for Burden of Guilt over Fist.

    This way SoJ isn't being buffed for PvE and isn't viable at all there but becomes much more useful in PvP and gives Ret a flat damage boost. But tbh between us we could probably think of a hundred different methods to help the current issue but blizzard just doesn't seem to understand or even know how to go about helping Ret without making this awkward or unbalanced in other areas.
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  12. #132
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    i beleive a 20% wep dmg buff is coming to the PTR
    If this happens I'll eat my own head.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If this happens I'll eat my own head.
    Yeah seriously, is this made up or does someone actually have a source?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 12:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Syiler View Post
    With our current 4p being replaced (HP when taking direct damage on a 8sec CD) and us gaining a 2min AW I don't feel this really solves anything. Ye 2min AW is great but still means we do nothing but off heal and pillar hump for 2 minutes instead of three, ok it gives us a more viable option to spread CD's but then kill pressure isn't as high. An now we will be losing out a quite a bit of passive HP which was nice for consistent damage and healing during downtime.

    This change would have been great if made a passive instead of taking something away from us, not sure why every ret "buff" needs to have strings attached "Well we are going to do this for you but in place take this other useful thing away" while other classes actually get things to help them nostrings. I feel buffing SoJ was a interesting route to take but risky to affect seal twisting and PvE, SoJ needs to be PvP only if it was to be changed I feel, so why not something along the lines of giving SoJ a PvP Power modifier when active, this means we can use choose between SoT for the dot or SoJ for the higher consistent damage overall not only that but with PvP Power increasing our healing next patch as well this would help our utility out. Heck or even giving back old SoJ where it had the chance to stun means we could probably go for Burden of Guilt over Fist.

    This way SoJ isn't being buffed for PvE and isn't viable at all there but becomes much more useful in PvP and gives Ret a flat damage boost. But tbh between us we could probably think of a hundred different methods to help the current issue but blizzard just doesn't seem to understand or even know how to go about helping Ret without making this awkward or unbalanced in other areas.
    One of the most infuriating things about the 5.2 PTR is that we were openly admitted to be weak, and then barely got any buffs that were not tradeoffs. Glyph of Templar's Verdict was basically it, everything else comes at some price. I can't wait to see the fiasco on the forums that ensues after everyone realizes Ret basically got no buffs that matter. As previously mentioned, the dispel on HoS really needed to be on Salvation; that would have been an actual buff.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If this happens I'll eat my own head.
    I'd be more realistic and say it's POSSIBLE they could increase it to 15%, but they haven't really said or alluded to anything we don't already know.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    i beleive a 20% wep dmg buff is coming to the PTR
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If this happens I'll eat my own head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Any source here, or wishful thinking?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Yeah seriously, is this made up or does someone actually have a source?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'd be more realistic and say it's POSSIBLE they could increase it to 15%, but they haven't really said or alluded to anything we don't already know.
    If I had to guess, he meant this;

    It's possible we could buff Seal of Justice (the 5.1 version) to 20% damage from 16% damage, but overall it would still probably not get much use in PvP.
    Why is everyone getting excited by that or did you guys think he meant Sword of Light?
    Last edited by Palatinus; 2013-02-19 at 01:05 AM.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
    Why is everyone getting excited by that or did you guys think he meant Sword of Light?
    YES 4% MORE DAMAGE.
    I thought it was referring to Sword of Light too, no one else noticed the stealth nerf of ret losing 35% damage going into MoP (BoM no longer gave 20% melee, Sword only gives 10% damage now)

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Yeah, he basically came off as arrogant and prejudiced every time he spoke on the forums, and clearly expressed that he doesn't give a crap that basically all hybrid dps are useless in arena. He more or less is rumored to want pure specs to be the only viable dps in PvP, anyone who can heal should heal, and all of the hybrid specs to be cheerleaders for frost mages, warriors, ect... Obviously Blizzard began to see that this attitude can no longer be publicly displayed due to fears of losing customers, so they made Ghostcrawler the new public face of Blizzard because he's a bit more diplomatic.
    He should have been fired and banished from the gaming industry forever.

  18. #138
    Epic! solvexx's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think the 2 min CD on AW coupled with all the buffs to us, and nerfs to other classes will be great.
    Though.. I really think we did pretty well this season.

    I mean.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ulVGNR3eM

  19. #139
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    Honestly, I think the 2 min CD on AW coupled with all the buffs to us, and nerfs to other classes will be great.
    Though.. I really think we did pretty well this season.

    I mean.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ulVGNR3eM
    it's cool that Arena is your playstyle. However RBG is the new main pvp FotM since it's introduction and as far as large group play goes ret is very undesired.

    It's cool and all the you have a group dedicated that you likely had been a part of for a long time but in all seriousness the general RBG scene treats rets like poison and that is unto itself a huge problem that needs fixed.

    The easiest way to buff pvp and pve sustained damage in general is a .2% scaling per 1% value on mastery, CS set to 150% weapon damage, and TV as 315% default weapon damage.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-19 at 02:21 AM.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    Honestly, I think the 2 min CD on AW coupled with all the buffs to us, and nerfs to other classes will be great.
    Though.. I really think we did pretty well this season.

    I mean.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ulVGNR3eM
    Uh.... hate to be a debbie downer but I'm going to point some things out. From 54 seconds to about 2 minutes you show a clip of you fighting a feral druid who is either a flat out idiot or... yeah he's a flat out idiot. You are never Faerie Fire'd. You are never Raked. He never pops defensive CD's. Not a single one. Other than maybe barkskin when he's running away from you for some ungodly reason.

    Most of your BG kills are exactly what PvP videos do. Show you killing a DK with ~300k max hp and showing off an 100k crit like it's that spectacular.

    Your game against the Shammy KFC you NEVER get disarmed when your cooldowns are up. Nor do you really get warbringer shockwaved.

    As anaxie said, you are probably in a RBG group with people you know. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been 50x easier if you were an arms warrior or FDK this season.

    TL;DR: I'm sure you aren't a bad Ret, but 90% of that video shows TERRIBLE or UNDERGEARED players, usually both. So... doesn't really show Ret as being fine.

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