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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Cool FINALY! GC Fixes Ret PVP!

    *Finally

    Paladin
    - We're worried that we're not going to be able to get the new Seal of Justice on PTR in a good place. We still like the goal of giving Ret more damage outside of their long cooldowns, but Censure just brings a lot of benefits that are going to be hard to reproduce in any kind of "build up to burst" mechanic. When faced with decisions like these where the new design isn't a clear win, we think the right decision is to revert the change. It's possible we could buff Seal of Justice (the 5.1 version) to 20% damage from 16% damage, but overall it would still probably not get much use in PvP.
    - However, we haven't given up on the idea of solving Ret's problems of long cooldowns. We are going to try changing the 4pc PvP set bonus to lowering the cooldown on Avenging Wrath by 1 min. This is a set bonus that has worked out pretty well in PvE and would help Ret keep up pressure more frequently without getting to the point of one-shot abilities.

    AWWW YEAAAAHHH!!!

    Think of a burst every 1 min: AW, HA, AW, HA... Ret had that on past expansions? Think Pillar of Frost.


    My wishes now:

    1) Ret PVP Utility - a spell like smoke/grip/solar/etc

    2) Better survivability/self heals/remove fear or stun/another CC to compete

    3) True options for Talents (maybe baseline umbreakable and half CDs on its place, buff pursuit of justice, instant Repentance, etc)


    But this is a GREAT step in the right direction =D


    ---

    You guys seems to be thinking I'm ironic here but then I think you're the optimistic ones. Ret has been SO fkd up SO MANY TIMES the last years and even more if you compare with other specs.

    If Ret does not get nerfed we're already getting buffed, since GC main objective is to make Rets unplayable and therefore Vanguards is his nemesis... whatever.

    Really, if Ret get ANY buff is like the end of the world. If Blizzard tries to make Ret playable is like maybe WoW is comming to the end.

    OF COURSE they will fail, since is GC after all. There is LOTS of good ideas to fix Ret as a competitive spec for PVP and they are to lazy to do it, is not like Ret is a Rogue or a Monk. But if you look at Ret 5.0 and 5.1 then on 5.2 we have lots of reason to CELEBRATE.

    Is like we move arround in a rusty weelchair and they will NEVER let us walk, not even dream to run like other specs, but if we get some oil the wheels so we are at least decent as cripples: YEY!
    Last edited by Cronosmash; 2013-02-17 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Fix spelling plz
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  2. #2

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    < snip >
    I see this as saying we don't know what to do, We gave all the toolkits to other classes we're stumped but here is a shorter CD on your burst I hope you don't get cc'd through it. I don't see the step in the right direction I see him being just as confused as he always is.

    The main problem is " I have gigantic wings on my back quick come cc me " for our burst.

    The secondary problem is " here is a pretty shell around me as I have bubbled kill me when it's gone " for our defense.

    Then last but not least I agree the toolkit is like a pocket knife vs a swiss army knife.


    I hope they figure it out but I have given up on them doing so for now at least we'll see how the outcome is and I always hope for the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  4. #4
    Reverting a change(wings used to be 2 min) isnt necessarily a fix in my opinion, but at least they did something

  5. #5
    Brewmaster insmek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post

    The main problem is " I have gigantic wings on my back quick come cc me " for our burst.
    I would gladly give up a major glyph spot to a glyph removing Avenging Wrath's graphic.
    2x MSI Radeon R9 270 | Intel i7-4790K | MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard | Razer Naga | Razer BlackWidow Ultimate
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  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk
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    Yeah... I mean its a good change, but it still doesn't address crappy utility. Blizzard needed to do something like buff DP and give us a single new spell for group utility. Wings used to be 2 minutes, making it two minutes now isn't going to do anything except let us use CD stacking more, but as of right now CD stacking is all we have.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    I see this as saying we don't know what to do, We gave all the toolkits to other classes we're stumped but here is a shorter CD on your burst I hope you don't get cc'd through it. I don't see the step in the right direction I see him being just as confused as he always is.

    The main problem is " I have gigantic wings on my back quick come cc me " for our burst.

    The secondary problem is " here is a pretty shell around me as I have bubbled kill me when it's gone " for our defense.

    Then last but not least I agree the toolkit is like a pocket knife vs a swiss army knife.


    I hope they figure it out but I have given up on them doing so for now at least we'll see how the outcome is and I always hope for the best.
    This.

    This is them realising what an abomination that SoJ change was, running out of time and just going "what can we do that will look like a big buff but isn't really?".

    This is that change. You listed a bunch of issues (survival, utility, talent build flexibility) that should have been fixed in this patch, but weren't because they were too busy telling us "No guys *SERIOUSLY* wait until you see this Seal of Justice change" despite being told that it has a list of problems as long as horse's cock.

    We were never weak in terms of cooldown burst, the problem is that outside of that 30secs we are near useless compared to any other melee in an RBG setting.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    2min AW would help ALOT imo.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    I was having nightmares that they were letting SoJ as it is on PTR. Really, waking up crying and stuff. So I'm really relieved.

    About this is a patch fix, it's true. But on top of all the discussion and good ideas the community is giving Blizz, they seemed to realise that Ret needs a major reworking (especialy for RBG utlity) and given up fixing for MoP or 5.2 at least. I hope I'm wrong, so I keep up on the REAL fixes for Ret.

    But for now, I celebrate o/
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  10. #10
    Seems more like a bandage, than a fix. So now I get to be CCd one minute earlier.
    Vote with your wallet if you don't like something. Otherwise just keep your mouth shut.

  11. #11
    4 piece set for sustained:

    "The weight of the light slows your weapon speed by .2 " There, fixed in a nice rp way and its kinda unique too.

    Sustained wont get wasted if chain cc'd.
    Last edited by Ulmita; 2013-02-15 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Umm... isn't everyone sort of forgetting that our current 4pc is pretty awesome? Holy Power from direct damage (in other words all the time since we always get trainded) every 8 sec. So now you can burst a bit more often, but your Holy Power generation will be much lower, so less sustained healing, less sustained damage, and even more trouble keeping Inquisition up...So in an attempt to give us more damage between cooldowns they nerfed our damage between cooldowns... In other words, now we get to be fully CCed every 2 minutes instead of 3, and then have even crappier damage and healing the rest of the time... this is awful.

  13. #13
    Just means more cooldown stacking, won't solve any of the problems but it's a nice change. I'm not a huge fan of having AW on 3 min and HA on 2 min. Just makes it awkward in my eyes.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal
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    Am I the only one missing something similar for PvE?
    It's nice that they noticed a big problem of Palas but this isn't an exclusive problem for PvP. If we lose our 4pc t14 in 5.2 we are fucked and i still can't see a single buff to palas PvE dmg so far. -.-

  15. #15
    I thought the goal was to distribute the burst damage into more sustained damage.... This change just buffs burst even more. It's obviously a big buff, but it doesn't fix the problems with the spec.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I thought the goal was to distribute the burst damage into more sustained damage.... This change just buffs burst even more. It's obviously a big buff, but it doesn't fix the problems with the spec.
    It also nerfs sustained because we are losing our old 4pc.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    The main problem is " I have gigantic wings on my back quick come cc me " for our burst.
    that's not a problem. it's a weakness. all classes need weaknesses, and they all have some. locks in meta, shamans in ascendance, durids with incarnation, et cetera, all have this same weakness. big "Imma hurt you" CDs need to be extravagant enough to give people the chance to notice you're dangerous right now.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Think of a burst every minute with HA/AW.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    that's not a problem. it's a weakness. all classes need weaknesses, and they all have some. locks in meta, shamans in ascendance, durids with incarnation, et cetera, all have this same weakness. big "Imma hurt you" CDs need to be extravagant enough to give people the chance to notice you're dangerous right now.
    Yet every class you named can't be beat just ccing them through their CD they all also have this thing called sustained damage, They definitely do not need to be extravagant and some are extremely over done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  20. #20
    What i would do:

    Reduce AW buff from 20% to 10% but i would "merge" Sanctified Wrath talent on it to make it a bit more interesting and not just a "simple +10% damage/heal buff" because it would look a bit weak for a CD of 3 mins (even for 2 mins CD would look crappy). Then i would add a new talent point where Sanctified Wrath was (sadly right now im out of ideas here ><).

    That would allow for a buff to our sustained damage without overbuffin ourburst when we use our CDs, or at least its what i think
    Last edited by Zoator; 2013-02-15 at 11:29 PM.

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