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  1. #161
    Epic! solvexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    THIS. Seriously we have one really good 4p bonus and they want to remove it? for what 1 min more cc? jesus blizz lost their sence of pvp
    Avenging Wrath is a DPS CD, not a CC.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    Avenging Wrath is a DPS CD, not a CC.
    enemies have an habbit of trowing all cc they have on a ret paladin that pops wings.

  3. #163
    Epic! solvexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gildra View Post
    enemies have an habbit of trowing all cc they have on a ret paladin that pops wings.
    A fair bit of that problem will be fixed when warriors get their shockwave increased to 40 secs.
    200 more PvP power as well now, increase to SoJ damage. Plus AW buff.
    Hand of Sac buff.
    Things are looking up.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by gildra View Post
    enemies have an habbit of trowing all cc they have on a ret paladin that pops wings.
    Your CDs last a long while. And let's face it, you have a 2 min trinket as well as hand of freedom and a bubble, as well as an instant stun, you can all save for burst/staying on your target. It's definitely possible for a ret to use their CDs properly if his arena team mates are doing their part to keep those who aren't your target off you/not healing whoever you've got focused. The problem is moreso that with no sustained DPS, ret isn't really worth bringing if they only have that burst that requires a lot of effort to use effectively.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    A fair bit of that problem will be fixed when warriors get their shockwave increased to 40 secs.
    200 more PvP power as well now, increase to SoJ damage. Plus AW buff.
    Hand of Sac buff.
    Things are looking up.
    I agree we will certainly be more viable in 5.2, but there is still no good reason to bring a ret to a RBG. Until we get some unique utility, there won't be. Not to mention the general disdain for melee in RBGs anyway.

  6. #166
    So... likely going to still swap between FoJ/SoJ and BoG/SoT depending on comp, counter comp, and/or map.

    But

    Will you be running HA or SW now?

    HA means you can:
    1) Run split CDs to have HA, AW, HA, AW every 60 sec's for some more reliable burst. HA's passive dmg increase on HoPo gen's is nothing to sneeze at.
    2) Run coupled CDs as a Swifty macro and be a 2 min wonder instead of a 2/3/5 thing going on. Huge burst, but hope you have your trinket up for the CC chain(s).

    SW means you can:
    1) Have 30 sec's of AW every 2 mins, for 25% uptime. This also allows faster HoW casts, in case/when we are kited. The longer duration is nice for a few other reasons too. We're far more likely to have usable time on target with wings, since CC will be on DR in that 30 seconds. Likewise, we can glyph AW for a % heal (albeit small) that now lasts 30 sec @ 25% uptime.

    Personally, I still like HA because I'm used to it and prefer the options it affords, but SW looks good on paper and seems to benefit MORE from the new 4pc than HA.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #167
    A idea to make HoW really finalization strike:

    HoW does not generate more HP
    SW does not reduce the CD but always make HoW crit

    Hammer of Wrath
    3.0% of base mana
    30 yd range
    Instant
    6 sec cooldown
    Hurls a magical hammer that strikes an enemy for 1747 to 1930 (+ 161% of SpellPower) Holy damage.

    Retribution
    Consumes Holy Power available to increase the critical strike chance by 35% per stack of Holy Power.

  8. #168
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafaelslx View Post
    A idea to make HoW really finalization strike:

    HoW does not generate more HP
    SW does not reduce the CD but always make HoW crit IWIN button?

    Hammer of Wrath
    3.0% of base mana
    30 yd range
    Instant
    6 sec cooldown
    Hurls a magical hammer that strikes an enemy for 1747 to 1930 (+ 161% of SpellPower) Holy damage.

    Retribution
    Consumes Holy Power available to increase the critical strike chance by 35% per stack of Holy Power.
    That is the worst and most clunky idea I have ever read. You just killed PvE sustained. Congratulations.

    If the CD reduction is removed the only choice is the 50% baseline crit reimplemented into SR. Not completely removing Templars Verdict sub 20%. with HP gen removal.

    HOWEVER one good idea for RBG goodness would reimplement rets Wotlk wings gimmic of ignoring 50% of damage reduction effects. This was one reason wrath rets were so potent in arena. Rogue? Spriest? Warrior? Hunter? Nice cd's guys. Die anyway
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-19 at 02:05 PM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    That is the worst and most clunky idea I have ever read. You just killed PvE sustained. Congratulations.

    If the CD reduction is removed the only choice is the 50% baseline crit reimplemented into SR. Not completely removing Templars Verdict sub 20%. with HP gen removal.

    HOWEVER one good idea for RBG goodness would reimplement rets Wotlk wings gimmic of ignoring 50% of damage reduction effects. This was one reason wrath rets were so potent in arena. Rogue? Spriest? Warrior? Hunter? Nice cd's guys. Die anyway
    In this case:

    SW:
    - SW does not reduce the CD
    - Always make HoW crit
    - HoW generates one charge of HP instead of consuming

  10. #170
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafaelslx View Post
    In this case:

    SW:
    - SW does not reduce the CD
    - Always make HoW crit
    - HoW generates one charge of HP instead of consuming
    Which further devalues critical strike as a statistic for ret. but reinforces mastery and haste. This of course would be a sustained buff for the talent since average haste levels has HoW well below pushing around 4.5 or lower seconds. DP and HA would need buffed ALOT to compete

    The "always crit" should be baseline to HoW in general or at the very least just reimplement the 50% passive crit which doesn't completely nuke the crit u already have in value as much and helps push HoW back towards being a proper execute.

    If 50% critical was the case you could argue to keep the CD reduction on the talent since it's fully warrented with rets current numbers and unsolved issues.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-19 at 02:35 PM.

  11. #171
    Because this game needs more burst #.#
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  12. #172
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Because this game needs more burst #.#
    If their gonna make us be the burstadin for 4 expansions straight they may aswell do it right and make Hammer execute a feared ability just as much as warriors.

    Our burst will continue sub 20% outside wings with this which is usually the point where ret struggles to finish of the target. Secondwindsogood.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-19 at 02:39 PM.

  13. #173
    Forget everything I said, and do HoW always be critical when the opponent is at 20% less than life.

    My idea was just to make the critical HoW were having at least some cost (Holy Power) and do not seem so OP within the SW

  14. #174
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
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    I use SW even now. Say whay you want but with SW up Ret becomes a STRONG ranged DPS and is really hard to CC someone for 30 secs strait. Plus the glyph heal for 15% of life during it.

    I'll use HA for sustained and SW for burst.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    I use SW even now. Say whay you want but with SW up Ret becomes a STRONG ranged DPS and is really hard to CC someone for 30 secs strait. Plus the glyph heal for 15% of life during it.

    I'll use HA for sustained and SW for burst.
    And HoW isn't mitigated by armor, and can almost be spammed. You know how many times a Warrior, DK, and Rogue begins to parry me like crazy? Can't parry HoW either.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Strear View Post
    They're not bad if well played. Most players are average, if you're good, you've got your chances . I have much fun with my Ret, and even if I play a warrior too, that's totally different when you don't have that healer behind you, and even more with the changes to come. The gameplay's different, the tools you bring to your teammates instead of tunneling an adversary, I like that.
    A lot of RET's are good/well-played, myself included, but most RBG/Arena teams already have a comp that they wanna run and RET isnt a part of that comp. If I respond to a LFM for RBG's chat heres how it will go:

    RBG leader: LFM RBG's 1 melee 2 healers then g2g
    ME: Paladin here
    RBG Leader: You holy?
    ME: No, im RET and full Male w/ upgrades and pretty good
    RBG Leader: sorry no room for Ret

    FACT!

  17. #177
    I've heard people parade around saying "ret is fixed!" for too damn long now. I'll believe it when I see it.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    If I respond to a LFM for RBG's chat heres how it will go:

    RBG leader: LFM RBG's 9 spots
    ME: Paladin here
    RBG Leader: You holy?
    ME: No, im RET and full Male w/ upgrades and pretty good
    RBG Leader: sorry no room for Ret

    FACT!
    Fixed :P.

    This wont change anything, ret doesn't just need a 'rework' it needs new utility that actually makes it a viable choice over bringing a rogue or frost dk or any other melee. Ret had problems getting into RBGs in cata, how did blizzard think that they would be a viable option after they removed everything unique to ret and gave it to holy rofl?

    Oh you have heals? Isn't that what a healer is for?
    What do you bring that this holy paladin here doesn't? A dispel with a 2min cooldown, o.O Wow yeah thats better than smoke bomb.
    Oh but your 'burst' is reasonable? Yeah so is every other dps classes....

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    A lot of RET's are good/well-played, myself included, but most RBG/Arena teams already have a comp that they wanna run and RET isnt a part of that comp. If I respond to a LFM for RBG's chat heres how it will go:

    RBG leader: LFM RBG's 1 melee 2 healers then g2g
    ME: Paladin here
    RBG Leader: You holy?
    ME: No, im RET and full Male w/ upgrades and pretty good
    RBG Leader: sorry no room for Ret

    FACT!
    Story of my life. :\

    Honestly there are a lot of ways to fix ret but the simplest, and crudest, is to simply make Ret into a legitimately viable offhealer. With a dispell + 40% of a pure healer's ability. Seriously. That way Ret would fill a certain niche where the team's 2 healers can carry the team while you help out.

    It would be useless in certain maps where you gotta 3 heal, but maybe in zerg maps a Ret's added DPS and heal combo would make them a strong pick for a top tier team. More varied comps in RBGs would be a good thing. Now it's virtually "LFM 1 FDK, 1 Tank, 3 heals, rest = ranged".

  20. #180
    Dude listen to this, ret will never be good for rbgs
    Stop cry omg. Dk frost, rogue are much better. Go play arenas, rbg is not for retris ( Only at 1800, 1900 maybe ) - 2.2+ RBG RET PALLY is totally useless.

    Infracted for non-constructive trolling. ~Fhi
    Last edited by Fhi; 2013-02-19 at 05:36 PM.

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