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  1. #1

    PvE trinks look alarmingly good for PvP?

    Does anyone else find resil not scaling as well over 65% / the absurdly strong PvE trinkets [even from LFR] alarming?

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/armor/trinkets

    thread on official about it as well already; http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4179647?page=1

    time to raid.. . s11 2.0
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-02-15 at 10:32 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  2. #2
    This was the case in all of BC, Wrath and most of Cata. Even more so for ppl doing rbgs or 5 man arenas or for human toons. Pvp power on trinkets now is the only reason this wasn't still the case for MoP up to now.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    This was the case in all of BC, Wrath and most of Cata. Even more so for ppl doing rbgs or 5 man arenas or for human toons. Pvp power on trinkets now is the only reason this wasn't still the case for MoP up to now.
    yea i know.. but this season was great because the pvp power / resil benifits outweighed the PvE item values... but next season it's looking like those changes will be moot as far as trinks are concerned.

    quick examples:

    for spriest burst :

    +1,657 Intellect
    Equip: Your damaging spells have a chance to grant 100% critical strike chance for 4 sec.

    Affliction:

    +1,657 Haste (3.90% at L90)
    Equip: Your periodic damage spells have a chance to grant 8,279 Intellect for 20 sec.


    its rumored that some of these proc trinks have ICDs ~20 secs.. thats going to break arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    yea i know.. but this season was great because the pvp power / resil benifits outweighed the PvE item values... but next season it's looking like those changes will be moot as far as trinks are concerned.

    quick examples:

    for spriest burst :

    +1,657 Intellect
    Equip: Your damaging spells have a chance to grant 100% critical strike chance for 4 sec.

    Affliction:

    +1,657 Haste (3.90% at L90)
    Equip: Your periodic damage spells have a chance to grant 8,279 Intellect for 20 sec.


    its rumored that some of these proc trinks have ICDs ~20 secs.. thats going to break arena.
    I dont know the ICDs in my head atm but if you look GC posted all of them like 1 day ago.

  5. #5
    They will almost certainly nerf or change proc rate and strengths if they become ideal for pvp. Something like the DS trinkets which had large procs split into faster occuring smaller ones. There will always be items from pvp or pve that work better then planned in the other format of the game. If it is one or two items it isn't ground breaking if it is all of them like ICC trinkets then there is an issue.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    They will almost certainly nerf or change proc rate and strengths if they become ideal for pvp. Something like the DS trinkets which had large procs split into faster occuring smaller ones. There will always be items from pvp or pve that work better then planned in the other format of the game. If it is one or two items it isn't ground breaking if it is all of them like ICC trinkets then there is an issue.
    do you remember how long it took for them to nerf Vial etc?

    not that it matters because:
    did you look at the trink list? it IS almost all of them. healing trinks inc.

    i'm not an alarmist, man. i didnt make the thread because of 2-3 trinks.. those items are insane.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-02-15 at 10:28 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    do you remember how long it took for them to nerf Vial etc?

    not that it matters because:
    did you look at the trink list? it IS almost all of them. healing trinks inc.

    i'm not an alarmist, man. i didnt make the thread because of 2-3 trinks.. those items are insane.
    It did take them some time to change it as they started to flood pvp. As they have stated and by the change to that they don't want ppl using pve items as the best pvp items. If the current stated trinkets are what go live and they show up in arena and rbgs too much then they will alter or nerf them.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  8. #8
    The Patient Store1989's Avatar
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    Just had a quick look at the trinkets, and boy are you right!
    I'm fearing a return of vial/deathbringers will era!

    But in all fairness let's give blizzard a chance and hope to god they find a way to fix this! I'm done with doing PvE for the sake of doing arena!
    Quote Originally Posted by Untoldblasphemy View Post
    "You play for fun, but when I kill you, who's having the fun?"
    ^ Awesome !

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    Does anyone else find resil not scaling as well over 65% / the absurdly strong PvE trinkets [even from LFR] alarming?
    Anyone who "find resil not scaling as well over 65%" is not a smart man.

    You have 60% resil. You take 40% damage from each hit.
    +1% resil effectively reduces the damage you take from before by 2.5%.

    You now have 70% resil. +1% more resilience is effectively reducing the damage you take by 3.3%.

    The closer you get to 100% resil, the better resilience becomes.
    Last edited by Tya; 2013-02-16 at 12:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Anyone who "find resil not scaling as well over 65%" is not a smart man.

    You have 60% resil. You take 40% damage from each hit.
    +1% resil effectively reduces the damage you take from before by 2.5%.

    You now have 70% resil. +1% more resilience is effectively reducing the damage you take by 3.3%.

    The closer you get to 100% resil, the better resilience becomes.
    Yes but Resi has diminishing returns in PTR atm. That makes it not worth to stack over 70%. But i dont see the point ppl cry about pve trinkets? They might be a bit better than pvp ones, but only a little. The 5.2 on-use trinkets give passive 1500 pvp power and 400ish resi, thats alot. And they give 3000 int etc. every 1min.

    So, pve ones are better but not by alot.
    Last edited by Mortalmansikka; 2013-02-16 at 01:25 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Yes but Resi has diminishing returns in PTR atm. That makes it not worth to stack over 70%. But i dont see the point ppl cry about pve trinkets? They might be a bit better than pvp ones, but only a little. The 5.2 on-use trinkets give passive 1500 pvp power and 400ish resi, thats alot. And they give 3000 int etc. every 1min.

    So, pve ones are better but not by alot.

    lol.. well i'm glad he cleared up how resil works because i had no idea. :/

    anyways;


    the crit trink.. speaks for its self.. that this is absolutely deadly in the hands of a bursting spriest.. even in the hands of ramping destro lock it could be crazy..fire mage.. i dont even wanna think of it. 100% crit for 4 secs is an rng class' wet dream.

    i actually forgot to link an AJ post on this too - http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/23...s-coming-back/

    on PTR - my lock is split gemmed resil / pvp power - 8600 resil / ~65.5% of resil.

    pvp power = 14,500 - 54.44% / trink value i would give as a human lock [these are undead #s so i'm alread about 1k pvp pwr lower] = 1,400.

    int = 14900 / ~ 7.75 crit hit added - increasing sp at almost 1:1 value.

    on use trink pvp increases int by 2,800 + 1,473 pvp even if you assume the ICD of the pve trink is the same as the cd for the on use..

    8,279 increase of your sp+crit as a multiplier even on a 1 min ICD is clearly better than the % of pvp pwr you'd lose..the damage overwhelms the amount that will[would] be ignored, and most definitely worth the 353 resil you'd give up for the extra trink. + 60% of my intellect for 1/5 of my up time is really good..not to mention the base haste increase for affliction. i don't know how this is even debatable.

    i'm glad you agree but unless they change it - the pve trinks are just better - i dont see the difference as small tbh. the crit trinket is terrifying.. i dont understand why you people dont feel the same way, but meh.


    anyways..even if you agree with none of my points, look at the healing trinks. no stats involved - they're just really good.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-02-16 at 02:44 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Yes but Resi has diminishing returns in PTR atm. That makes it not worth to stack over 70%. But i dont see the point ppl cry about pve trinkets? They might be a bit better than pvp ones, but only a little. The 5.2 on-use trinkets give passive 1500 pvp power and 400ish resi, thats alot. And they give 3000 int etc. every 1min.

    So, pve ones are better but not by alot.
    And? Resi have dr on live, yet it is the best pvp stat by miles.
    The closer you get to 100% resil, the better resilience becomes.

    I have a 70 twink r sham. And even though I sit on 92% resi I would gladly sacrifice tons my int/hp/spirit just to have 1% more resi.
    Why?
    My effective health would still increase drastically, if I went down 500 hp to 15k unbuffed and gained 1% resi; at 0.07% my effective health in pvp would be 214285 hp (a gain of 20.5k). This is why resi is always better.
    If a level 90 had 93% resi and a really low hp pool of 300k (4.28milion EH) he would still have higher effective health than a 90 with 90% resi and 400k hp (4milion EH).

    As for healing stats; I view them as rather weak. Actual healing utput remains more or less unchanged (healers are strong by default, no point whatsoever of going for those stats as healers already heal way more than what is actually needed).

  13. #13
    In a game that is already bursty for a warrior if this trinket makes it live it will be gamebreaking i think: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96398

    8300 strength is more than 50% of my current gear strength. I cannot believe the equivelant pvp trinket will ever be as bursty as this.

    Also hello human.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord aeir's Avatar
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    Some of those trinkets look RIDICULOUS. Especially the healer ones.
    in depth.

  15. #15
    Imagine 8 boomkin`s dots on four ppl which crit all the time + ~20secs of spamming instant starsurges in RBG. Starsurge can crit for 180k on a good geared player now and it gets +9% buff in 5.2. Thats how it will look like.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Store1989 View Post
    But in all fairness let's give blizzard a chance and hope to god they find a way to fix this! I'm done with doing PvE for the sake of doing arena!
    I'm in all honesty done with giving Blizzards chances to fix things or do something in advance to precent them. They have never not once done so since the end of BC before it was too late.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Yes but Resi has diminishing returns in PTR atm. That makes it not worth to stack over 70%. But i dont see the point ppl cry about pve trinkets? They might be a bit better than pvp ones, but only a little. The 5.2 on-use trinkets give passive 1500 pvp power and 400ish resi, thats alot. And they give 3000 int etc. every 1min.

    So, pve ones are better but not by alot.
    No, they are better by alot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ettan View Post
    And? Resi have dr on live, yet it is the best pvp stat by miles.
    The closer you get to 100% resil, the better resilience becomes.

    I have a 70 twink r sham. And even though I sit on 92% resi I would gladly sacrifice tons my int/hp/spirit just to have 1% more resi.
    Why?
    My effective health would still increase drastically, if I went down 500 hp to 15k unbuffed and gained 1% resi; at 0.07% my effective health in pvp would be 214285 hp (a gain of 20.5k). This is why resi is always better.
    If a level 90 had 93% resi and a really low hp pool of 300k (4.28milion EH) he would still have higher effective health than a 90 with 90% resi and 400k hp (4milion EH).
    What he means is that they nerfed the scaling of resilience on the PTR by a lot after 70%. You have nearly no gain whatsoever after that point anymore. So your level 70 twink is going to end up with a lot less resilience if this goes on the normal servers. That means that stacking resilience won't benefit you anywhere near as much as it currently does. I'm at 67% resilience on level 90 and it's far, far to less to even compensate the burst of 2~ halfway geared and competent players at the moment.

  17. #17
    These trinkets are by far better than PvP trinkets. There is no argument of resi vs these trinkets. You get what, 400 resi from trinkets on PTR? That's shit all. I'd much rather have a proc that increases my damage by nearly double for the duration its up (Crit trinket).


    And for Healers, the PvE trinkets are amazing too.


    I'm not sure if Blizzard will do anything. They could just have 'not usable in arena' on them, but then PVErs would cry because their trinkets didn't work in Arena. (Although, PVP trinkets don't work in PvE, +pvppower and +pvpresi are useless).

    I think the best thing to do would let them keep it equipped but disable the proc in Arena. That way they still get the flat increase in stats if they want to try out PvP.

  18. #18
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'm not to worried about the trinkets, but I have to say those healer trinkets are pretty sick.
    While the PvE trinkets for dps are a bit more bursty, you'll have less sustained damage and slightly less damage reduction. Not to mention that proc trinkets in general are a waste when you don't have other cooldowns ready/up.

    And just saying but try casting a chaos bolt in a random 4sec window, it's anything but easy. Against complete noobs, yeah, you can do that, against a better player, you'll likely never get that chaos bolt off, especially not when they are watching your procs.

    I'm not saying the trinkets are fine, but really, you guys are overreacting.

  19. #19
    I think what people are missing is that although these trinkets have low/zero ICDs, they also have very low real PPMs. Their actual 'cooldown' will be similar to current PvE trinkets (usually about ~1.5-2minutes) scaling with haste. Additionally, the 'PvE' trinkets that are available to everyone for VP are very strong as well (comparable to heroic trinkets when you have low haste, as they are based off of the old proc chance system). I don't think there is a real issue here.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I cannot believe the equivelant pvp trinket will ever be as bursty as this.
    Feathers gives you a scaling buff up to 15000 Strength during the 18-20second segment, those two seconds of 15k strength are more than enough to oneshot a poor soul.

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