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  1. #201
    As for the alt run concerns, make the 30 attempts account wide?

    Edit: And if you kill it, reset the counter so you can go kill it on an alt if you so please.

    Double edit! Even if it's bugged/impossible, Blizzard should probably only hotfix it during server maintenance. Not during the week like they did with Vizier.
    Last edited by ZakAtack; 2013-02-16 at 06:50 AM.

  2. #202
    best thing ever! now we will see whos the best guild. Not which guild makes the most pulls. i hope this tier will stay at last for 4+ weeks before the top guilds will finish heroic. Cuz t14 race was the most boring one with the raids coming out on different weeks.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    As for the alt run concerns, make the 30 attempts account wide?

    Edit: And if you kill it, reset the counter so you can go kill it on an alt if you so please.
    Make 30 attempts account-wide? So people will paid character change their alts to other accounts? Yeah, seems like the kind of thing Blizzard would do to generate more revenue.

  4. #204
    People: "Ulduar is and was amazing! Best raid ever!"

    Blizzard: "Ra-Den is a heroic only boss that you only get 30 attempts at per week"

    People: "FUCK YOU BLIZZARD, WAY TO ARTIFICIALLY EXTEND 5.2!"

    Bahaha. People are hilarious.

    Note: Didn't read the thread posts, I assume this was brought up ad naseum already. Still lawl.

  5. #205
    Have 2nd group of 90s and do it within 60 pulls #profit.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Make 30 attempts account-wide? So people will paid character change their alts to other accounts? Yeah, seems like the kind of thing Blizzard would do to generate more revenue.
    Ok, so you've proven that if there is any sort of limitation whatsoever, people will game it. I don't know, if World First guilds want to do alt raids and get it within 60-90 pulls, I guess I don't think that's worse than banging their heads against it with their mains for 100+.

  7. #207
    Why do people think the boss is doing to die within 60-100 pulls? Nobody knows anything about the boss. The first month or so (or combined 100-200 pulls) is going to be simply trying to figure out what the hell you're supposed to do.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulrann View Post
    Why do people think the boss is doing to die within 60-100 pulls? Nobody knows anything about the boss. The first month or so (or combined 100-200 pulls) is going to be simply trying to figure out what the hell you're supposed to do.
    Do they? On the contrary, knowing Blizzard with a heroic only boss with no player testing, it'll probably be riddled with bugs and theoretically unkillable until you already have the loot it drops. I'd say the first few weeks of attempts will be nothing more than a waste of time.

  9. #209
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    Its irrelevant to me as I doubt Ill get to see it, but I see it artificially extending the tier but I dont see that as a negative.

  10. #210
    The major reason why this didn't work in WOTLK is because people were losing attempts due to people disconnecting, people pulling by mistake and all kind of crap that can happen like that.

    So I'm kind of surprised they are bringing this back, because they clearly said it was useless because people were going to do the encounter on the PTR, then go live to kill it once they were close (for Algalon) and people had multiple alt runs for ICC.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Do they? On the contrary, knowing Blizzard with a heroic only boss with no player testing, it'll probably be riddled with bugs and theoretically unkillable until you already have the loot it drops. I'd say the first few weeks of attempts will be nothing more than a waste of time.
    That too.

    Another reason why gating an untested boss is absolutely ludicrous. If I remember correctly, (which I may not, since I wasn't hardcore raiding in T11) Sinestra was so bugged when it was being progressed on that it was literally being hotfixed between guilds' pulls.
    Last edited by Jalopy; 2013-02-16 at 07:15 AM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Theiea View Post
    Paragon said they had 500 attempts on heroic Rag before they killed him.
    Yeah, but they knew they have unlimited attempts. When doing a new boss on heroic you waste a lot of attempts to figure out at which time the boss uses which skill, is there a pattern, how big is the damage increase, which raid composition will be the best and so on.

    500 attempts sound like a lot but you can bet that 300-400 attempts were just figuring something out or trying something new. When you have unlimited attempts you can afford to wipe on purpose so that you can try again phase one of the fight and practice it until you can do it perfectly and then do the same thing with the next phase and so on.

    I think the hardcore guilds will love it that they have only a limited amount of attempts because that makes the race even more interesting. Now they have to give everything on every single try.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulrann View Post
    That too.

    Another reason why gating an untested boss is absolutely ludicrous. If I remember correctly, (which I may not, since I wasn't hardcore raiding in T11) Sinestra was so bugged when it was being progressed on that it was literally being hotfixed between guilds' pulls.
    Nope, you're right. One of the guys from Paragon had an interview where he said they figured something out with death knights, Blizz hotfixed it, and they were like, "What just happened?"

    From my understanding, there were GMs watching them the entire time (kinda creepy, yet also strangely assassin/ninja-like).

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Hold on, you think Blood Legion can do 2 full heroic clears in 1 week so they can get 30 extra attempts on Ra'den, while progressing in the earliest weeks? Don't think so.
    Its not impossible, we don't know the difficulty of heroic throne of thunder. It could be alot easier to what we're used to, could be alot more difficult, could be on par with what we have now. And given the type of guild blood legion & how they use their time, no it wouldn't be surprising. Proabably not the first couple weeks we see it no, but once they start getting closer to ra'den & start progressing on him and use their 30 attempts, and nobodys got first kill...what do you think they're gonna do? Give up until next week...no top guild would do that...

  15. #215
    most of you clowns won't ever see it, why complain

  16. #216
    awful idea. limited attempts are a guilds worst nightmare because:

    1) disconnects, lag, addon issues, accidental pulls are extremely frustrating to deal with. these types of issues are already frustrating to deal with on unlimited attempts
    2) you're very restricted with the players you can use. it's very risky and costly having to switch people in and out based on their schedules etc. when you may have to spend a few attempts teaching new people what 20 some odd people already know and have experienced

    in addition, in particular for Ra-den:

    3) you can't use alts to feel out this particular encounter. this isn't normal lich king. this is a heroic-only boss, available once per heroic id. the idea of using alts to get more learning attempts before using mains on the "real" attempts is completely invalid here. to generate more attempts with alts you need an alt raid to clear 12/13Heroic. if you haven't killed Ra-den with your main raid before your alt raid reaches 12/13Heroic, that means you've already had something like 120 attempts (1 month) on Ra-den already... the alt raid would then barely serve you any learning purpose other than having more attempts on the fight you've already progressed on.
    4) there is zero information on the boss. assuming linear progression in difficulty (which happens often but not always as we've seen), guilds could literally spend 60 attempts just learning what the boss abilities are. mind you, guilds could spend 60 attempts just getting past 2 phases before seeing a 3rd phase for the first time. who knows maybe the boss is easier than lei shen but its mystery makes it the challenge. this, coupled with reason #3, makes this kind of a feature a headache for guilds

  17. #217
    I think the ONLY boss I've had more than 30 attempts on was Elegon N at around 44. Everything else was 20 or less, and I'm 9/16H.

    I personally don't care unless he's overtuned :P
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  18. #218
    Blizzard Entertainment: Ignoring feedback since 2004.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    I visualized playing it in my head and it was bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    I mean you have all the trademarks of one childish, ignorant, irresponsible, retarded.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I think the ONLY boss I've had more than 30 attempts on was Elegon N at around 44. Everything else was 20 or less, and I'm 9/16H.

    I personally don't care unless he's overtuned :P
    He's the heroic-only final boss of the tier
    It's going to take everyone more than 30 attempts

  20. #220
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunba View Post
    Forcing people to play 12-18 hour days to compete is pretty ridiculous.

    Limiting raid hours reduces player burn out and server use - it is Blizzard's place.
    Lol what kind of utopia do you live in?

    What do all you guys saying top end guilds cant clear 12/13 on alts during progress, think they are gonna do when they are 12/13 on their mains after 5 days? you think they are just gonna go, hey no more to do lets take a brake? ofc not they are gonna go on alts for 2days.
    they might not clear 12/13 on alts first reset, but they sure as hell are going to clear 12/13 with at least 2 alts during 2end week.
    assuming they become 12/13 during first reset ofc..

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