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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    The problem is let's say Ra'den had loads and loads of Lore about the Titans and basically told us what they've been doing. Given us flashbacks about what they did to Azeroth and all that. That would piss people off a heroic only encounter had so much of that. That's my gist of Heroic Only bosses.
    Wasn't the case for Algalon or Sinestra.

  2. #202
    What a horrible design.

    Limited attempts or time limit bosses encourage raiders to hate other raiders. It forces you to outright sit applicants. Disconnects, game crashes, or emergencies can drastically alter your raid week. Being "that guy" can be detrimental to many raiders despite their enthusiasm for being hardcore. You don't want to be the guy who wipes your guild on normal fights. Being the guy who wastes one of your last attempts? That's hellish.

    Limited attempt encounters encourage ZERO change in a raiding roster. You do not want to risk missing loot or the kill by bringing in others (even other raiders.)

    Limited attempt encounters encourage significant ALT play. For top end guilds, this means 2-3 ALT 25m raids after the first week's clear. For lower end world guilds not competing for World Firsts but respectable placement, it encourages the sitting of your 10 best suited players after the first week and to transition to a 10m raid to make attempts.

    Limited attempt encounters MAY (notice the word choice) benefit 10m raiding guilds over 25m as it is far easier to support an entire ALT core (as it is already pretty common in hardcore 10m guilds.)

    Limited attempts, as someone mentioned earlier, does not limit the amount of time raiders commit to a fight. But instead of pulling and playing the game, we have multiple people parsing through logs analyzing every buff and debuff that is active-- seeing which abilities negate the affect or what cooldowns we should manage. Things that are normally done INSIDE the game through additional pulls AND PLAYING WORLD OF WARCRAFT are deprived from us and now we get to surf World of Logs.

    They attempted to rectify 25m raiding through their idiotic creation of Thunderforged gear. They refuse to address the Troll racial advantage outside of a dismissive tweet from GC. And their response to cater to hardcore raiding guilds is to implement a fight which encourages you to consistently sit part of your raiding core. Does anyone who designs this content raid in a hardcore guild?

    Limited attempts adds only frustration to the race and to the guilds who raid at the top level. It's not fun-- it's frustrating. I really hope they reconsider.

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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    If you're doing 50 attempts on anything in 4 hours, you're trying to brute force it, and this is the exact mechanic they implement to avoid that.
    ...What? you can easily pull that many attempts in AT LEAST 4 hours even if you're wiping 3-5 minutes into a fight. Well, barely if you wipe 5 minutes in, but still - 30 is NOT a lot whatsoever.
    Last edited by Hayro1; 2013-02-16 at 06:16 AM.

  4. #204
    The Patient AnotherInternetOpinion's Avatar
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    203 replies of arguing, and you can garuntee almost certainly that not one of you posting will even be in the running for any kind of FIRST.

  5. #205
    I'm going to have to side with some others in this thread.

    If you kill twelve bosses, and then blow through thirty pulls on Ra'den, it's time to go outside.

    It's not like you're being unfairly limited in any way that the rest of the community isn't. It just means Blizzard is telling you to, I don't know, not play WoW 24/7.

    Besides we all know the same people complaining about this limit would also complain if they killed Ra'den after the first week or two by doing nothing but playing WoW.

    Life is more hardcore than any raid in game.

  6. #206
    I am a fan of limiting the amount of pulls groups get on bosses per week. I do understand why the top end players do not like it though since they end up pulling the boss with an alt raid to work out the mechanics then go in with the A team toons to actually kill him.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherInternetOpinion View Post
    203 replies of arguing, and you can garuntee almost certainly that not one of you posting will even be in the running for any kind of FIRST.
    Nope. No I won't. I work full time, pay my bills, have a life. Why should I also "work" in a game for a fictional achievement that means squat to reality?

    That being said I do read the forums enough to know that NOTHING Blizzard does will make the "hardcore" raiders happy. Blizzard puts a cap on attempts and you complain. Blizzard leaves it open and the boss dies the first week, you complain.

    And while you rage at Blizzard, and pixels, and a make-believe world, the rest of us will be living in reality.

    As I said before, "life is more hardcore than any raid in game."

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    Wasn't the case for Algalon or Sinestra.
    Those were time limits, still creates the same issues for some groups though.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  9. #209
    The Patient AnotherInternetOpinion's Avatar
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    Thats fantastic.

  10. #210
    This is taking one of the only good features to come from H ToC and using it again. I am all for it.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  11. #211
    As for the alt run concerns, make the 30 attempts account wide?

    Edit: And if you kill it, reset the counter so you can go kill it on an alt if you so please.

    Double edit! Even if it's bugged/impossible, Blizzard should probably only hotfix it during server maintenance. Not during the week like they did with Vizier.
    Last edited by ZakAtack; 2013-02-16 at 06:50 AM.

  12. #212
    best thing ever! now we will see whos the best guild. Not which guild makes the most pulls. i hope this tier will stay at last for 4+ weeks before the top guilds will finish heroic. Cuz t14 race was the most boring one with the raids coming out on different weeks.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    As for the alt run concerns, make the 30 attempts account wide?

    Edit: And if you kill it, reset the counter so you can go kill it on an alt if you so please.
    Make 30 attempts account-wide? So people will paid character change their alts to other accounts? Yeah, seems like the kind of thing Blizzard would do to generate more revenue.

  14. #214
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    People: "Ulduar is and was amazing! Best raid ever!"

    Blizzard: "Ra-Den is a heroic only boss that you only get 30 attempts at per week"

    People: "FUCK YOU BLIZZARD, WAY TO ARTIFICIALLY EXTEND 5.2!"

    Bahaha. People are hilarious.

    Note: Didn't read the thread posts, I assume this was brought up ad naseum already. Still lawl.

  15. #215
    Have 2nd group of 90s and do it within 60 pulls #profit.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Make 30 attempts account-wide? So people will paid character change their alts to other accounts? Yeah, seems like the kind of thing Blizzard would do to generate more revenue.
    Ok, so you've proven that if there is any sort of limitation whatsoever, people will game it. I don't know, if World First guilds want to do alt raids and get it within 60-90 pulls, I guess I don't think that's worse than banging their heads against it with their mains for 100+.

  17. #217
    Why do people think the boss is doing to die within 60-100 pulls? Nobody knows anything about the boss. The first month or so (or combined 100-200 pulls) is going to be simply trying to figure out what the hell you're supposed to do.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulrann View Post
    Why do people think the boss is doing to die within 60-100 pulls? Nobody knows anything about the boss. The first month or so (or combined 100-200 pulls) is going to be simply trying to figure out what the hell you're supposed to do.
    Do they? On the contrary, knowing Blizzard with a heroic only boss with no player testing, it'll probably be riddled with bugs and theoretically unkillable until you already have the loot it drops. I'd say the first few weeks of attempts will be nothing more than a waste of time.

  19. #219
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Its irrelevant to me as I doubt Ill get to see it, but I see it artificially extending the tier but I dont see that as a negative.

  20. #220
    The major reason why this didn't work in WOTLK is because people were losing attempts due to people disconnecting, people pulling by mistake and all kind of crap that can happen like that.

    So I'm kind of surprised they are bringing this back, because they clearly said it was useless because people were going to do the encounter on the PTR, then go live to kill it once they were close (for Algalon) and people had multiple alt runs for ICC.

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