1. #1
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    Which boss would you recommend next? (25man Heroic)

    Hey guys and girls.
    So, with 5.2 a couple of weeks away, I'm sort of undecided with what my guild should do for the last couple of weeks (other than dealing with our farm bosses).
    A little not so relevant info before I get to the point, any of the usual Tl;dr dwellers, feel free to skip this bit. It's just a little back story from this Tier about the guild
    So, the guild formed in November, merging 3 guilds into one. Went a little sour to begin with, lost roughly 1/4 of the raiders we had in the merge. 1 left, the rest outright quit. Unfortunately it was a good quarter of players who left, it sucked, we moved on and dealt with it. We limped through the easier Heroic bosses, although a lot of us had 10man hc experience of the fights so it made it easier a bit.
    We pretty much gave up on the idea of a full 16/16hc clear before the new patch.
    Since January we've started to build the guild up well, not fully sorted but we're getting there. The main issue is grabbing a few more bosses before 5.2 to see if it can help, recruitment wise if not for gear. Unfortunately we left WotE Hc until this reset as we were focusing on bosses which yielded better loot first (Lei Shi in particular, more HC tier and some Sha weapons and other nice things over all).
    It cost us a good bit of the criteria score on wowprogress doing it that way, because WotE is worth a lot more as an end boss. Like I said though, we gave up on the 16/16hc dream a while ago and started to prepare and build towards 5.2, gearing and recruiting as best we can.

    That brings me to the point, at last!
    We're currently 10/16 Hc. MV Heroic all cleared, Blade Lord, Garalon, Wind Lord in HoF are down along with Lei Shi in Terrace.
    What I am posting this for though is a recommendation from people who have done this Tier on 25man and can tell me which boss would be considered easier out of the 4 left we can actually pull and realistically kill. We're raiding 3 days a week, 3 1/2 hours a day. We can add a 4th day if we're progressing well and feel a kill isn't far away.
    Imperial Vizier Zor'lok
    Amber-Shaper Un'sok
    Protectors of the Endless
    Tsulong

    The original plan was Amber Shaper, but I am not convinced it is the easiest of the 4 left, so I was looking for some advice and I'd be extremely grateful for some!

  2. #2
    The Patient Dorac's Avatar
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    Amber shaper is a lot of personal responsibility among your raiders. I'd go Vizer or Protectors, probably Vizer, as long as people can dodge balls.

  3. #3
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Dorac. The was the general opinion of two of the officers here.
    Appreciate it!

  4. #4
    Depends a bit on how well geared/skilled the average member of you raid is etc I'd say. Anyways protectors has alot higher dps requirment then Vizier/amber shaper and needs decent coordination in 25 man with the add rotation. Other than that though the fight is very similar to normal except for the high raid damage in phase 3. So if you're well geared and know everyone can pull good dps and your healers know what they are doing that might be worth a shot.

    On the other hand vizier is all about getting the mechanics down and perfecting the last phase, it doesn't have that high dps requirments as long as people stay alive.

    Amber shaper is a bit of a bitch, there's alot to learn and personal responsibility comes into the picture since someone that miss a interrupt on the monstrousity will wipe you.

    My personal opinion would as allready have been stated to go for Vizier and then you can do amber shaper if you trust everyone to know the construct otherwise go Protectors!

  5. #5
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    Thanks Ballong.
    Again, I appreciate it!

  6. #6
    We were basically in same boat too, but decided to go for Amber first for the loot since protectors isn't really much of an upgrade from normal elite.

    Amber took us far longer then it should've, but a lot of that was Valentine's day, changing strats too many times etc. We're going to go to Vizier next for a shot at clearing Fear if the patch happens to be delayed.

    If you end up going amber shaper, we used following strat:

    P1:
    -3 tank
    -First reshape = eat 2 puddles, Second = eat 2 puddles, 3rd = eat 1 puddle, 4th = eat 1 puddle
    -Push p2 when he does the scalpel after breaking 4th tank out. 5th tank now will stay in the construct. Raid can burn boss as he transitions to knock 10-20% health off him. You don't "have" to but why not? We didn't push p1 any earlier intentionally to make puddles easier for tank in p2. Healing wasn't a big issue as we 6 healed, but you could probably 5 heal just fine too.

    P2:
    -Tank and anyone transformed will build stacks on the Monstrosity. Tank is responsible for interrupting the Monstrosity explosion.
    -When Monstrosity is ~25-40%. You'll need to see based on your personal dps and timing we switched to putting stacks on the boss.
    -Try to keep dpsing the monstrosity before stacks fall off to get him near 10%.
    -Just Cooldown the next monstrosity explosion. We wiped a bunch to trying to interrupt it and risk stacks falling off the boss. One barrier in center of room + devo aura and/or RC/Demo banner is plenty. Everyone just needs to run into center of room as it happens/use a personal CD.
    -DPS monstrosity and push p3 before the next monstrosity explosion. Try to push after breaking out a person from the construct (isn't required just makes it easier).

    You want to enter p3 with boss having 10-15+ stacks, which should happen pretty easily.

    P3:
    -Group up/heal and handle orbs properly and profit

  7. #7
    We killed Amber-Shaper in like 7 attempts a few weeks ago using the strategy of zero DPS on the boss in phase 1 until the 8th reshape, then bloodlust and burn him down. Constructs ate 4,4,4,4,2,2,2,0. 8th reshape is the permanent construct. Then all construct stacks can go on the monstrosity and end phase 2 in like 2 minutes. Phase 3 basically doesn't exist. Orbs don't even have to be handled properly, you'll get one wave and people just need to run out and die by themselves.

    By way of comparison, we killed Amber-Shaper before Lei Shi and Zor'lok and Lei Shi took us 35 attempts, Zor'lok 34 attempts.

  8. #8
    I'd actually say Unsok myself. Depending on the strat you use, it can be very easy.

    We did a burn strat. No damage on the boss in P1, except for constructs which always eat 4, until the eighth Scalpel, then you blow Lust/CDs/Pots to get him down below 30% before he gets his shield. Use CDs with 3 sec left on Scalpel, so you get full uptime. (Remainder of CD time goes into the tank that just got reshaped, there's no point in leaving him in.)

    Execute phase 2, making sure each constructed person eats two pools after their first interrupt while maintaining stacks on the Monst, wait until the next person to be shaped to pop out (which guarantees that they will have enough time to get the interrupt), DPS goes Amber > Const to 20% > Monst.

    Laugh at him in P3, kite orbs indefinitely. Shouldn't get more than one set. We used this strat, got a kill in 10 attempts, first time in P3.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrys View Post
    I'd actually say Unsok myself. Depending on the strat you use, it can be very easy.

    We did a burn strat. No damage on the boss in P1, except for constructs which always eat 4, until the eighth Scalpel, then you blow Lust/CDs/Pots to get him down below 30% before he gets his shield. Use CDs with 3 sec left on Scalpel, so you get full uptime. (Remainder of CD time goes into the tank that just got reshaped, there's no point in leaving him in.)

    Execute phase 2, making sure each constructed person eats two pools after their first interrupt while maintaining stacks on the Monst, wait until the next person to be shaped to pop out (which guarantees that they will have enough time to get the interrupt), DPS goes Amber > Const to 20% > Monst.

    Laugh at him in P3, kite orbs indefinitely. Shouldn't get more than one set. We used this strat, got a kill in 10 attempts, first time in P3.
    My guild used this strat and killed it in less than 10 attempts. We managed to get him to 12% during the lust so phase 3 was a joke.

  10. #10
    I enjoy doing Protectors more than Zorlok. It could just be our strat on Zorlok, but we basically one shot Sha now and still have issues on Zorlok -_-

    Protector DPS matters a lot, as well as group rotating positions quickly. Zorlok has a lot of personal responsibility to not die to many mechanics that can easily take you out, plus a smidge of luck. Tsulong is the easiest in terms of mechanics/learning a strat, though supposedly it's hard? Didn't seem like it to us. Amber Shaper is another that you can wipe on weeks later if you get people that just don't understand how to be the Vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooutine View Post
    My guild used this strat and killed it in less than 10 attempts. We managed to get him to 12% during the lust so phase 3 was a joke.
    Spoilers, if you do the fight the other way, keeping a reshape alive for all of Phase 2, Phase 3 is a joke anyway.

  11. #11
    Do Tsulong last of them, he's probably the hardest encounter (hard because there's also rng involved, which isn't the case @ sha, he's just kinda exhausting, because the tries are too fucking long).
    Would recommend Zorlok, he's a joke after the nerf (too much to write down tbh, in a nutshell its: 1-2 groups for the mirrors everytime and remaining raid for "him", so you just split, use your cooldowns / aoe grip / shadowfury properly for converts, dont kill the people, dance properly, dont die, use your shit ccs before convert (aoe fear, best), pull the last image into the right corner besides his last platform, pull encounter after convert to the "entrance" in p3, kill him), Ambershaper (if you won't use the 0dps burn him in lust before abo spawns - tactics) depends on your raid, if you are lucky you take him down in the first few tries, because the people in the construct know what to do, they can keep track of their dbm/bigwigs timers, otherwise it can end up as a huge pain in the ass. If you want to do ambershaper 3 tanks, fourth construct is perm, kill adds, stack on him, not-perm-construct stacks on abo (dont let it drop!), not-perm-construct soaks once, leaves at low hp and below 20 will, interrupts self (which also deals a decent amount of damage to it), below 8 seconds until big cast pool the interrupt (which is also the +dmg stack, button 1), 2 is selfinterrupt for your own explosion, 3 is soaking of pools and 4 is leaving. stand in meleerange, stacks, do your job, leave, kill abo, kill adds outside of the raid, tank ambershaper in the mid of the room, amberbeacon leaves raidcamp (they have to "hit" each other, kinda like sinestra orbs), perm-abo-tank has stacked 32947238947238497389 times on him, you kill him in 20 seconds, gg. sounds easy, main problem is: vehicle, how to they work (I bet I heard "it bugged" or "I had lag" a billion times or ranges who tell you that they werent in range)
    protectors is
    rangecamp meleecamp tanks
    rangecamp kills adds, melees in a row behind them (rangecamp grp1, remaining raid in the remaining groups, higher dps means earlier group (because you get stacks earlier), melees kick (ie weakauras whisper - 3 kickchains with 3 melees each which interrupt independent from each other - waterbolt is the cast), collect stacks, dont fuck up stacks, dont let them fade (3-2-2-2 or sth like that, dunno in detail, iirc its 3-3-2-2 6-6-5-5 9-9-9-9 healer last group to soak the stacks for the last add), adds arent allowed to reach the boss, you arent allowed to get 10 stacks, kill them (debuffguy, lightning guy, waterboltguy), as soon as you know how to handle the stacks (which can be pretty annoying especially with trials) its an easy ride. we set up rangedcamp in lei shis direction (left side of the "way"), tank "right" side of the circle, not-stacking-raid in the circle in direction to the exit, the stacker in the circle in direction to lei shi.
    kill orbs, interrupt casts, kill adds, stack properly, dont let the adds reach the encounter
    its pretty much you have to pay attention to, also purging the buff down from the encounter, having ranged interrupts for lightning nova, lust for the last one.

    tsulong is adds, reset, adds, reset, adds, reset, dont die in nightmares, dont let the pillar disappear, maximize dps on him, grip embodied terror in front of him, deal it down before breath comes, aoe fear adds spawn out of him, nuke 20% of the adds (breath deals 80% of their life), stack heal on him, dont let the other adds reach him, interrupt casts, dont let people die, healer collect buffs, embodied terror grip, nuke them, aoe grip into solar beam to avoid fears, transition is the hardest part probably and handling the pillars, if they despawn you have to chain healcds/dmgreductions, camp has to move @nightmare, dps loss for most classes/specs, also pretty well tuned regarding dps/heal, so I doubt that you want to do him before you already killed the other possible encounters, its just really really annoying and a lot of things to pay attention to. In terms of difficulty I'd say he's shorter than sha, but on par if not even higher.

    after I re-read this I know why I'll never be a raidlead, I suck at explaining
    Last edited by Discodelya; 2013-02-27 at 05:08 AM.
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  12. #12
    If your raiders can interrupt the abom then go to amber-shaper, if not go to vizier.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrys View Post
    I'd actually say Unsok myself. Depending on the strat you use, it can be very easy.

    We did a burn strat. No damage on the boss in P1, except for constructs which always eat 4, until the eighth Scalpel, then you blow Lust/CDs/Pots to get him down below 30% before he gets his shield. Use CDs with 3 sec left on Scalpel, so you get full uptime. (Remainder of CD time goes into the tank that just got reshaped, there's no point in leaving him in.)

    Execute phase 2, making sure each constructed person eats two pools after their first interrupt while maintaining stacks on the Monst, wait until the next person to be shaped to pop out (which guarantees that they will have enough time to get the interrupt), DPS goes Amber > Const to 20% > Monst.

    Laugh at him in P3, kite orbs indefinitely. Shouldn't get more than one set. We used this strat, got a kill in 10 attempts, first time in P3.

    This. It makes the fight fairly straight forward, same as the other posters we got the boss down in less than 10 pulls with this strat.
    Although we still did Vizier first.
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  14. #14
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    vizer is nice on 25man, or well. if you can dance that is. We actually got it down our first night of progress cause people could dance.

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