Ra'den has 30 attempts per week limit

[Hayro1]

Limited attempts are bad, and they (blues) even admitted it. What happens on the 30th attempt and things are going smooth/semi-smooth, yet the server randomly dc's a healer or two/etc? yes, I've been dc'd from the game before while raiding for no reason whatsoever, and sometimes couldn't get back on right away. And lol @ people thinking 30 attempts is "a lot," you can easily do ~50 attempts in about 2-4 hours, depending on how fast/long you wipe/etc.

[fangless]

Read the current blue post about it. They said it failed because it the approach was that of a timed nature.

Ragnaros 1, Nefarion 1, Algalon. Timed attempts (though you could reset BWL to do Nef again :P), those made any sort of strategy tweaking pointless. You just need to slam your head into the wall as fast as possible.

And then the Lich King limited attempts wasn't a bad thing for Heroic, but rather normal mode, where guilds just took alts to it, and there still wasn't any emphasis on quality attempts.


I'm fine with the limited number approach, personally. You may get crappy DC's, but I'd be more upset when someone pulls pre-maturely or dies right off the bat to be honest :P

you can easily do ~50 attempts in about 2-4 hours, depending on how fast/long you wipe/etc.

If you're doing 50 attempts on anything in 4 hours, you're trying to brute force it, and this is the exact mechanic they implement to avoid that.

[Raxxed]

Look forward to the 500 people complaining about it, yet will never see the boss for 2 tiers.

It's a good thing. MMO's are about prestige. Less people killing it, the more prestige.

[thehordemage]

People will just learn the fight on alts instead. Personally I think the 1 hour per week thing that you got on Algalon was quite cool.

How will they just learn the fight on alts instead? It's a heroic only boss. This would mean you need to clear a 12/13H alt raid to learn it on alts. Only then would you have more than 30 attempts.

[Shoot-]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ited-attempts/

Response/update

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Look forward to the 500 people complaining about it, yet will never see the boss for 2 tiers.

It's a good thing. MMO's are about prestige. Less people killing it, the more prestige.

The problem is let's say Ra'den had loads and loads of Lore about the Titans and basically told us what they've been doing. Given us flashbacks about what they did to Azeroth and all that. That would piss people off a heroic only encounter had so much of that. That's my gist of Heroic Only bosses.

[Raxxed]

The problem is let's say Ra'den had loads and loads of Lore about the Titans and basically told us what they've been doing. Given us flashbacks about what they did to Azeroth and all that. That would piss people off a heroic only encounter had so much of that. That's my gist of Heroic Only bosses.

Again, the "give me everything on a silver platter" argument.
If you want something, work for it.
You could get there by the end of the tier raiding like 4 hours a week.
Edit: Or wait until next tier.

[Christan]

People complain about bosses dying in the first week.
Now they get to complain about them not.

well if you throw your bodies at them 300 times in one week then yep
this only extends finding strats based off constant wiping

wipe once, find out what happened, go back in, fix one thing then the next then the next, talk about the fight after each wipe, instead of just before / after raid night.

no more lucky streaks of no one making a mistake or everyone critting a lot it seems, actually need to step back and theorycraft on this boss as you go along because you only get 30 tries.

(ps it might help if people were recording from different angles so when shit hits the fan you can see who had what debuff or what almost invisible frontal cone the boss has, then see whether you need to split or spread/tank cd for it...etc)

How will they just learn the fight on alts instead? It's a heroic only boss. This would mean you need to clear a 12/13H alt raid to learn it on alts. Only then would you have more than 30 attempts.

actually they will, ya don't seem to understand how good these people are on their alts.
their alt raids are better than 90% of the raiding population (all raiding guilds not heroic only)

the 12/13 bosses will be easy for them to do(i think) because they have foreknowledge of what to expect by doing it on their mains

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Again, the "give me everything on a silver platter" argument.

That's not what I said and you know that. I definitely work for it. I don't ask for nerfs so please get off your High Horse.

[SenSayNyu]

There a blue post about topic already.

"I'd also really like to emphasize that Ra-den is a true bonus boss. Lei Shen is the final boss of Throne of Thunder, just as Yogg-Saron was the final boss of Ulduar. Lei Shen offers an epic challenge, and should feel like the pinnacle of the zone as a whole. Ra-den is your reward if you manage to beat the zone on its hardest difficulty -- he's a bonus level. And sometimes the rules are a bit different on those."

And I'm happy with this, it gives me reason to push forward as a player and a guild.

[stumpy]

The problem is let's say Ra'den had loads and loads of Lore about the Titans and basically told us what they've been doing. Given us flashbacks about what they did to Azeroth and all that. That would piss people off a heroic only encounter had so much of that. That's my gist of Heroic Only bosses.

Wasn't the case for Algalon or Sinestra.

[Pariah]

What a horrible design.

Limited attempts or time limit bosses encourage raiders to hate other raiders. It forces you to outright sit applicants. Disconnects, game crashes, or emergencies can drastically alter your raid week. Being "that guy" can be detrimental to many raiders despite their enthusiasm for being hardcore. You don't want to be the guy who wipes your guild on normal fights. Being the guy who wastes one of your last attempts? That's hellish.

Limited attempt encounters encourage ZERO change in a raiding roster. You do not want to risk missing loot or the kill by bringing in others (even other raiders.)

Limited attempt encounters encourage significant ALT play. For top end guilds, this means 2-3 ALT 25m raids after the first week's clear. For lower end world guilds not competing for World Firsts but respectable placement, it encourages the sitting of your 10 best suited players after the first week and to transition to a 10m raid to make attempts.

Limited attempt encounters MAY (notice the word choice) benefit 10m raiding guilds over 25m as it is far easier to support an entire ALT core (as it is already pretty common in hardcore 10m guilds.)

Limited attempts, as someone mentioned earlier, does not limit the amount of time raiders commit to a fight. But instead of pulling and playing the game, we have multiple people parsing through logs analyzing every buff and debuff that is active-- seeing which abilities negate the affect or what cooldowns we should manage. Things that are normally done INSIDE the game through additional pulls AND PLAYING WORLD OF WARCRAFT are deprived from us and now we get to surf World of Logs.

They attempted to rectify 25m raiding through their idiotic creation of Thunderforged gear. They refuse to address the Troll racial advantage outside of a dismissive tweet from GC. And their response to cater to hardcore raiding guilds is to implement a fight which encourages you to consistently sit part of your raiding core. Does anyone who designs this content raid in a hardcore guild?

Limited attempts adds only frustration to the race and to the guilds who raid at the top level. It's not fun-- it's frustrating. I really hope they reconsider.

[Hayro1]

If you're doing 50 attempts on anything in 4 hours, you're trying to brute force it, and this is the exact mechanic they implement to avoid that.

...What? you can easily pull that many attempts in AT LEAST 4 hours even if you're wiping 3-5 minutes into a fight. Well, barely if you wipe 5 minutes in, but still - 30 is NOT a lot whatsoever.

[AnotherInternetOpinion]

203 replies of arguing, and you can garuntee almost certainly that not one of you posting will even be in the running for any kind of FIRST.​

[Twotonsteak]

I'm going to have to side with some others in this thread.

If you kill twelve bosses, and then blow through thirty pulls on Ra'den, it's time to go outside.

It's not like you're being unfairly limited in any way that the rest of the community isn't. It just means Blizzard is telling you to, I don't know, not play WoW 24/7.

Besides we all know the same people complaining about this limit would also complain if they killed Ra'den after the first week or two by doing nothing but playing WoW.

Life is more hardcore than any raid in game.

[Alvito]

I am a fan of limiting the amount of pulls groups get on bosses per week. I do understand why the top end players do not like it though since they end up pulling the boss with an alt raid to work out the mechanics then go in with the A team toons to actually kill him.

[Twotonsteak]

203 replies of arguing, and you can garuntee almost certainly that not one of you posting will even be in the running for any kind of FIRST.​

Nope. No I won't. I work full time, pay my bills, have a life. Why should I also "work" in a game for a fictional achievement that means squat to reality?

That being said I do read the forums enough to know that NOTHING Blizzard does will make the "hardcore" raiders happy. Blizzard puts a cap on attempts and you complain. Blizzard leaves it open and the boss dies the first week, you complain.

And while you rage at Blizzard, and pixels, and a make-believe world, the rest of us will be living in reality.

As I said before, "life is more hardcore than any raid in game."

[Alvito]

Wasn't the case for Algalon or Sinestra.

Those were time limits, still creates the same issues for some groups though.

[AnotherInternetOpinion]

Thats fantastic.

[Alvito]

This is taking one of the only good features to come from H ToC and using it again. I am all for it.