Ra'den has 30 attempts per week limit

[Mormolyce]

Man people will bitch about ANYTHING.

Remember that limited attempts per week just means that every time you get a new lockout you're better geared, so it'll actually take you a lot fewer pulls in total than if you spent a whole week grinding away at a boss trying to get it down in say, week 3.

[Pilek01]

I don't think they said he wasn't going to be hard, he just wont be as hard (complicated???) as Lei Shen. Numbers might still be pretty high for him.

i bet his mechanics wont be as complicated but he will be tightly tuned, will need insane dps and hps and the few abilitys that he will have will 1 shot if not handled corectly. thats my bet.

[Mormolyce]

I don't think they said he wasn't going to be hard, he just wont be as hard (complicated???) as Lei Shen. Numbers might still be pretty high for him.

They said he'll be like Algalon. Remember that Algalon's mechanics were actually trivial compared to the other high end Ulduar bosses - what made him hard was simply tight tuning.

Do a Herald of the Titans run if you want to see what I mean - now that balance changes have significantly buffed player damage versus what it was when Ulduar was live, Algalon is actually a walk in the park now. Tank and spank.

So expect Ra'den to be a relatively simple fight with punishing tuning.

[Saphyron]

So..how many here are actually in a guild that can even UNLOCK this encounter?

Apparently 2147 guilds got Sinestra and we are talking tier 11 - so that is like...ANCIENT. And it includes probably 2000 guilds who bothered to do it now that it is much easier.

taken from guildox
Heroic: Sinestra
Achievement rate: World 6475, 10m 5494, 25m 630

[Deleted]

taken from guildox
Heroic: Sinestra
Achievement rate: World 6475, 10m 5494, 25m 630

Just over 1000 guilds killed Sinestra before 4.2. WowProgress shows 2147 because it stopped tracking Tier 11 at the end of Cataclysm and that 6000 is all kills up until now I believe.

[Soulstrike]

well, ra-den world first kill will pretty surely go to an asian guild, since they have a lot more attempts on him per week than we do.

once they kill lei-shen 25m heroic they will have unlocked ra-den. then they split up their raid team into 3 or more 10man groups and work on a valid strategy for ra-den in 10man practising the fight and testing out things. keep in mind: asian guilds have separate 10m and 25m lockouts, so doing this won't affect their 25m mainraid at all. they will effectively have 90 - 120 attempts per week (depending on how many 10m groups they are going to do this with; for example: 2 10m groups: 2x30 attemps in 10m + 30 in their 25m main raid) where the europeans and us guilds will have 30 per week. good job blizzard, it's really fucking ridiculous

uhhh you do realise the lockout ID for heroic is shared among all raiders on 25man??? so the other 2 groups wont be able to enter the instance(says its full)

so jokes on you???

this fight wont be hard for most of us since we will probably see the kill video by the time we get there lol

[Lolvanish]

Don't really care since i'm probably not going to get to that fight. Should make for a interesting race for first though.

[Zevoa]

It won't impact 95% of the player base.

[Deleted]

It won't impact 95% of the player base.

More like 99% but yea the point is the same.

[Jainzar]

i don't see how EU/US can actually "race" Asians for world first, different lockouts as you've said allowing more tries, more gear, then all gear being 8 item levels higher, under half the reset time for the raids, it's completely different they don't have the same rules they shouldn't be in the race.

yea, but they are. which is a huge problem and pretty unfair to all the other guilds.

uhhh you do realise the lockout ID for heroic is shared among all raiders on 25man??? so the other 2 groups wont be able to enter the instance(says its full)

so jokes on you???

no it's not? he's completely right, it is unfair. yea, they can only attempt him with 25 people in their 25m heroic mainraid, but they still can practise the strategy with 3 10man groups and report back to their main raiders and discuss things. plus if they do this with 3 10man groups, this means that only 5 people can't join the 25m raid, which, by my math (don't know about yours), isn't really that big of an issue.

[Deleted]

All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.

[Soulstrike]

All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.

worked pretty well in icc (not mentioning toc because how easily flamed it will get when i mention something good about toc) so yea i say why not but then again would suck to have some short wipe due to dc and stuff :/

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 08:39 PM ----------

yea, but they are. which is a huge problem and pretty unfair to all the other guilds.




no it's not? he's completely right, it is unfair. yea, they can only attempt him with 25 people in their 25m heroic mainraid, but they still can practise the strategy with 3 10man groups and report back to their main raiders and discuss things. plus if they do this with 3 10man groups, this means that only 5 people can't join the 25m raid, which, by my math (don't know about yours), isn't really that big of an issue.

um heroic raid lockout=/=normal lockout people seem to easily get confused with this sort of stuff you cant have 3 groups of 10man killing heroic sha when the instance is full from that raid id lockout im pretty damn sure thats how lockout works

oh and about asian guilds yea they do have 60 tries a week if they manage both 12/13H same week, will be interesting how they progress compare to us/eu guilds

[Jainzar]

um heroic raid lockout=/=normal lockout people seem to easily get confused with this sort of stuff you cant have 3 groups of 10man killing heroic sha when the instance is full from that raid id lockout im pretty damn sure thats how lockout works

oh and about asian guilds yea they do have 60 tries a week if they manage both 12/13H same week, will be interesting how they progress compare to us/eu guilds

yea, he was talking about asian guilds i know that in the eu / us region this isn't possible because 10m and 25m share the same raid lockout. the thing is: in asia, they don't. you can go into 25m heroic throne of thunder, kill 12/13 heroic there and still go 10m heroic in the same week with the same character and also kill 12/13 heroic there.

[Gilian]

I don't get it. Why do they keep insisting on limiting players ability to play? Valor cap, rep cap, limited attempts.
And what did Blizzard think this time? Let's give limited attempts another shot? If it worked so great during ToC/ICC then why don't we see it in every raid?

Maybe it's good for competition but it can also be utterly frustrating. People having bad connections, one person getting an important phonecall and wipes you or a hundred other scenarios you can think of. Or the fact that you used all your attempts and are then done for the week.

I think any sort of limitation is bad. Let people decide for themselfs how fast they want to finish something. But then again that would mean less profit for Blizzard and that is all that matters.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:27 AM ----------

All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.

Like how they limit budgets (money) in all major sports? The teams that have the most money will have the best teams. That is at least how it works in soccer.

I wonder since when Blizzard cared about competition. They only do this to keep people playing the game so they don't cancel their subscription till the next patch or maybe for always.

[Tenjen]

*looks at gilians post*

oh. my. god. 19 pages of the same stuff being posted and debunked with the same counters over and over.

i dont see how ICC and TOC can even apply to this because the attempt limit is on an Extra Bonus Full Heroic Boss Algalon/Sinestra boss.

Its hardly limiting progress. the gear will only be obtainable by the few top elite for the majority of the patch and opening up only a little in future patches (still out of reach of general population raiding guilds). And having heroic gear from the other bosses is hardly "making do".

Infact if you can get a world first kill with the limited system, it shows just how much better you are as a guild rather than learning something by rote and muscle memory by doing it 500 times in a row. and also really, the serious elite guilds do not have people "getting an important phonecall and wiping the attempt". We arent talking about wishy washy raiders here.

Its an Extra Bonus Heroic Only Boss who's extra tough and hard after a long line of extra hard bosses in a new raid. Those who kill it will have even more personal prestige due to the limitations. It will just take longer.

[Velthy]

I wish all bosses could be like this. It would show which guilds are actually good and which just got too much free time.

[Deleted]

I wonder since when Blizzard cared about competition. They only do this to keep people playing the game so they don't cancel their subscription till the next patch or maybe for always.

Lol are you suggesting that people that battle for world first, will be "forced" to play the game longer because they have limited attempts on the final hc boss and they would otherwise unsubscribe when they had killed him?

This argument is thrown around now everywhere even for content 99.9% of the player base will never see and is made for people that will never quit. They will just start preparing for the next hc tier when they kill Ra'den, they won't unsubscribe get real.

[Gilian]

I also don't see what the amount of players being able to kill Ra'den has anything to do with this. "It's the minority so saying anything negative doesn't count." Best argument ever.

think YOU missed to read the blue posts saying that applied to NORMAL bosses not "optional" or "hc only" bosses

And the difference is? That it affects less people?

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:37 AM ----------

Lol are you suggesting that people that battle for world first, will be "forced" to play the game longer because they have limited attempts on the final hc boss and they would otherwise unsubscribe when they had killed him?

This argument is thrown around now everywhere even for content 99.9% of the player base will never see and is made for people that will never quit. They will just start preparing for the next hc tier when they kill Ra'den, they won't unsubscribe get real.

So for what reason do they add limited attempts according to you? For fun? Yeah right. Because they care so much about what the 0.01% does? I thought they didn't because that is what everyone here is saying.

[Deleted]

Sounds cool, been missing "Tribute to Insanity" -sort of fights.

[Gilian]

*looks at gilians post*

oh. my. god. 19 pages of the same stuff being posted and debunked with the same counters over and over.

i dont see how ICC and TOC can even apply to this because the attempt limit is on an Extra Bonus Full Heroic Boss Algalon/Sinestra boss.

Its hardly limiting progress. the gear will only be obtainable by the few top elite for the majority of the patch and opening up only a little in future patches (still out of reach of general population raiding guilds). And having heroic gear from the other bosses is hardly "making do".

Infact if you can get a world first kill with the limited system, it shows just how much better you are as a guild rather than learning something by rote and muscle memory by doing it 500 times in a row. and also really, the serious elite guilds do not have people "getting an important phonecall and wiping the attempt". We arent talking about wishy washy raiders here.

Its an Extra Bonus Heroic Only Boss who's extra tough and hard after a long line of extra hard bosses in a new raid. Those who kill it will have even more personal prestige due to the limitations. It will just take longer.

And that is exactly the only thing it does.

p.s. I am not going to read through 15 pages, sorry. I also don't see any 'counters' here.