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  1. #361
    The Patient
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    It won't impact 95% of the player base.

  2. #362
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrenka View Post
    It won't impact 95% of the player base.
    More like 99% but yea the point is the same.

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  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    i don't see how EU/US can actually "race" Asians for world first, different lockouts as you've said allowing more tries, more gear, then all gear being 8 item levels higher, under half the reset time for the raids, it's completely different they don't have the same rules they shouldn't be in the race.
    yea, but they are. which is a huge problem and pretty unfair to all the other guilds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    uhhh you do realise the lockout ID for heroic is shared among all raiders on 25man??? so the other 2 groups wont be able to enter the instance(says its full)

    so jokes on you???
    no it's not? he's completely right, it is unfair. yea, they can only attempt him with 25 people in their 25m heroic mainraid, but they still can practise the strategy with 3 10man groups and report back to their main raiders and discuss things. plus if they do this with 3 10man groups, this means that only 5 people can't join the 25m raid, which, by my math (don't know about yours), isn't really that big of an issue.

  4. #364
    All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

    Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

    Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.
    worked pretty well in icc (not mentioning toc because how easily flamed it will get when i mention something good about toc) so yea i say why not but then again would suck to have some short wipe due to dc and stuff :/

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 08:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jainzar View Post
    yea, but they are. which is a huge problem and pretty unfair to all the other guilds.




    no it's not? he's completely right, it is unfair. yea, they can only attempt him with 25 people in their 25m heroic mainraid, but they still can practise the strategy with 3 10man groups and report back to their main raiders and discuss things. plus if they do this with 3 10man groups, this means that only 5 people can't join the 25m raid, which, by my math (don't know about yours), isn't really that big of an issue.
    um heroic raid lockout=/=normal lockout people seem to easily get confused with this sort of stuff you cant have 3 groups of 10man killing heroic sha when the instance is full from that raid id lockout im pretty damn sure thats how lockout works

    oh and about asian guilds yea they do have 60 tries a week if they manage both 12/13H same week, will be interesting how they progress compare to us/eu guilds
    Last edited by Soulstrike; 2013-02-20 at 07:43 AM.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    um heroic raid lockout=/=normal lockout people seem to easily get confused with this sort of stuff you cant have 3 groups of 10man killing heroic sha when the instance is full from that raid id lockout im pretty damn sure thats how lockout works

    oh and about asian guilds yea they do have 60 tries a week if they manage both 12/13H same week, will be interesting how they progress compare to us/eu guilds
    yea, he was talking about asian guilds i know that in the eu / us region this isn't possible because 10m and 25m share the same raid lockout. the thing is: in asia, they don't. you can go into 25m heroic throne of thunder, kill 12/13 heroic there and still go 10m heroic in the same week with the same character and also kill 12/13 heroic there.

  7. #367
    I don't get it. Why do they keep insisting on limiting players ability to play? Valor cap, rep cap, limited attempts.
    And what did Blizzard think this time? Let's give limited attempts another shot? If it worked so great during ToC/ICC then why don't we see it in every raid?

    Maybe it's good for competition but it can also be utterly frustrating. People having bad connections, one person getting an important phonecall and wipes you or a hundred other scenarios you can think of. Or the fact that you used all your attempts and are then done for the week.

    I think any sort of limitation is bad. Let people decide for themselfs how fast they want to finish something. But then again that would mean less profit for Blizzard and that is all that matters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    All HC bosses should have a limited attempt counter. Those with more time than others still have the advantage of more perfection in their strategy.

    Limiting budgets is the main key in every sport to keep it interesting and competitive. In WoW time is the budget.
    Like how they limit budgets (money) in all major sports? The teams that have the most money will have the best teams. That is at least how it works in soccer.

    I wonder since when Blizzard cared about competition. They only do this to keep people playing the game so they don't cancel their subscription till the next patch or maybe for always.

  8. #368
    *looks at gilians post*

    oh. my. god. 19 pages of the same stuff being posted and debunked with the same counters over and over.

    i dont see how ICC and TOC can even apply to this because the attempt limit is on an Extra Bonus Full Heroic Boss Algalon/Sinestra boss.

    Its hardly limiting progress. the gear will only be obtainable by the few top elite for the majority of the patch and opening up only a little in future patches (still out of reach of general population raiding guilds). And having heroic gear from the other bosses is hardly "making do".

    Infact if you can get a world first kill with the limited system, it shows just how much better you are as a guild rather than learning something by rote and muscle memory by doing it 500 times in a row. and also really, the serious elite guilds do not have people "getting an important phonecall and wiping the attempt". We arent talking about wishy washy raiders here.

    Its an Extra Bonus Heroic Only Boss who's extra tough and hard after a long line of extra hard bosses in a new raid. Those who kill it will have even more personal prestige due to the limitations. It will just take longer.

  9. #369
    Warchief Velthy's Avatar
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    I wish all bosses could be like this. It would show which guilds are actually good and which just got too much free time.

    Signature made by my best friend Aryiana.

  10. #370
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I wonder since when Blizzard cared about competition. They only do this to keep people playing the game so they don't cancel their subscription till the next patch or maybe for always.
    Lol are you suggesting that people that battle for world first, will be "forced" to play the game longer because they have limited attempts on the final hc boss and they would otherwise unsubscribe when they had killed him?

    This argument is thrown around now everywhere even for content 99.9% of the player base will never see and is made for people that will never quit. They will just start preparing for the next hc tier when they kill Ra'den, they won't unsubscribe get real.

  11. #371
    I also don't see what the amount of players being able to kill Ra'den has anything to do with this. "It's the minority so saying anything negative doesn't count." Best argument ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrii021 View Post
    think YOU missed to read the blue posts saying that applied to NORMAL bosses not "optional" or "hc only" bosses
    And the difference is? That it affects less people?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sisk View Post
    Lol are you suggesting that people that battle for world first, will be "forced" to play the game longer because they have limited attempts on the final hc boss and they would otherwise unsubscribe when they had killed him?

    This argument is thrown around now everywhere even for content 99.9% of the player base will never see and is made for people that will never quit. They will just start preparing for the next hc tier when they kill Ra'den, they won't unsubscribe get real.
    So for what reason do they add limited attempts according to you? For fun? Yeah right. Because they care so much about what the 0.01% does? I thought they didn't because that is what everyone here is saying.

  12. #372
    Sounds cool, been missing "Tribute to Insanity" -sort of fights.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    *looks at gilians post*

    oh. my. god. 19 pages of the same stuff being posted and debunked with the same counters over and over.

    i dont see how ICC and TOC can even apply to this because the attempt limit is on an Extra Bonus Full Heroic Boss Algalon/Sinestra boss.

    Its hardly limiting progress. the gear will only be obtainable by the few top elite for the majority of the patch and opening up only a little in future patches (still out of reach of general population raiding guilds). And having heroic gear from the other bosses is hardly "making do".

    Infact if you can get a world first kill with the limited system, it shows just how much better you are as a guild rather than learning something by rote and muscle memory by doing it 500 times in a row. and also really, the serious elite guilds do not have people "getting an important phonecall and wiping the attempt". We arent talking about wishy washy raiders here.

    Its an Extra Bonus Heroic Only Boss who's extra tough and hard after a long line of extra hard bosses in a new raid. Those who kill it will have even more personal prestige due to the limitations. It will just take longer.
    And that is exactly the only thing it does.

    p.s. I am not going to read through 15 pages, sorry. I also don't see any 'counters' here.

  14. #374
    this is a great idea.. like its been said all heroic bosses should have limited attempts..that way u can show whos smart enough to kill it and who just has way more time to spending wiping on 100+ tries... separates the best from the carried.

  15. #375
    special heroic only boss, guaranteed to drop the thunderforged gear, limited attempts seems sensible - at least a whole lot more sensible than 1 hour per week a'la alagalon.

    i dont see the problem, he's the only boss getting limited attempts and lorewise, it seems pretty freaking epic.


    in terms of progression and raid framework, i think blizz have done a top notch job in MoP. there haven't been any major raid content changes or alternative progression systems that horrifically undermine your previous efforts. patch 5.0 was all about getting your main setup in pandaria, 5.1 was level up the alts time, now with 5.2 it's alt raid time. (unless ofc you're in a hardcore or at least semi progression focused guild)
    Last edited by smokii; 2013-02-20 at 10:49 AM.
    where's the goddamned ESO sub forum?

  16. #376
    Inc 1 shot!

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    And that is exactly the only thing it does.

    p.s. I am not going to read through 15 pages, sorry. I also don't see any 'counters' here.
    If you're not going to read at least some of the thread your post is worthless. DO you really think you're so special that your points haven't already been raised? Here are your counters:

    1) "important phone call" This simply isn't an issue for the people doing this. We're talking the top few guilds in the world, not little Joey who has to chat with his girlfriend every night. Sure, rare emergencies could happen (house on fire, etc) but those are called rare for a reason.

    2) You want competition? This provides it. It's no different than games having set lengths for their playing periods. Pick your sport and they all have limits. Field size is limited. Play time is limited. Doing 500 attempts to kill something in a week is possible only when there are no limits. Limits prove skill here and in sports. Soccer (football) doesn't ask 'who can score the most goals' but 'Which team will score more in a 90 minute period?' This does the same thing. Not "Who can kill him" but "WHo can kill him with only 30 tries per week?"

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 05:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I also don't see what the amount of players being able to kill Ra'den has anything to do with this. "It's the minority so saying anything negative doesn't count." Best argument ever.
    Because 99.9% of us don't care. It doesn't affect us at all and never will this patch or even this expansion. It might be an issue that's important to you if you're in, say, a top 100 world guild but do you really think most of the people complaining about this are in guilds like that? I don't. They're bitching just to bitch and it's kind of tiresome.

    I kind of like this - it evens the field by creating a constraint and making guilds view attempts as precious and not just a matter of who can sit at the computer the longest. To me, it's no different than limiting the number of downs in American football (you have 4 possible attempts to move 10 yards and if you fail, you give the ball to your opponent at that spot).

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    More like 99% but yea the point is the same.
    I imagine that it's more like 99.99%. I'm sure the attempt counter will be lifted after 2-3 months, which is how long it'll take anyone other than the .01 percenters to get there.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I don't get it. Why do they keep insisting on limiting players ability to play? Valor cap, rep cap, limited attempts.
    And what did Blizzard think this time? Let's give limited attempts another shot? If it worked so great during ToC/ICC then why don't we see it in every raid?
    Are you in a world first guild? Is anyone in this thread?

    Do you have any idea how many times they will wipe on a single boss in one week during progression? Believe me after 300 wipes on Lei Shi I doubt they'll really be pissy that they only got 30 on Ra-Den...

    I swear, people are just looking for an excuse to get mad. Even a totally illogical one will do.
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  20. #380
    I think for the competitive groups that will reach Ra-den the fastest it wouldn't matter too much. They are competing with other groups with the same limited attempts so the group with better quality attempts (and possibly luck) will get him down first.

    For the rest of the guilds that will reach the boss much later, they will have a LOT more info about the boss which will reduce the number of attempts actually needed to kill the boss, and possibly the removal of the limited attempts so it should only be a minor issue.


    You can still bang your head against the wall for the rest of the raid which has a solid 12 bosses in it . (solid as in amount of bosses)


    Not THAT big of a deal imo :/

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