Do you miss Thrall's Horde?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah, in real life it would be a good thing. But for fiction it makes for a really boring story imo.

There's more to the story then a personal feud with the playable faction. It's not a boring story. Some people just think it's stupid just to start a war with both factions cause "WE WANT MORE WARCRAFT RAWR." That is what this war is about. It's all it has been.

Yeah, it seems people don't know what they want. I think it's simply because people can't split real life and fiction. They judge Garrosh as if he was a real human being. And as such they blame him for racism and whatnot. Come on people, this is fiction! Grow up

You can judge characters in game and in fiction as much as people want. It's part of literature and reading. So by your logic *Grow up*.

[Valarius]

You do understand that this is just how they planned Garrosh from the start right? This wasn't an 11th hour choice, he was always going to end up this way

Malleable =/= make him suddenly an asswipe. I know it pains you to face the truth about Thrall, but next to Garrosh' energy and vitality and true leadership throughout Cata he looked like a passive imbecile who couldn't even control his own allies during his time as leader.

This is Thrall in a nut-shell: Sylvanas fucks up > Varian wants revenge > Thrall intervenes > Thrall does nothing and lets Sylvanas carry on doing whatever. Yeah, what a fantastic diplomat. A good leader who really wanted peace would have punished Sylvanas himself as a show of good faith. Thrall didn't do that. He's always been that way.

The only reason Garrosh is being killed off and was 180'd is because a million Thrall fanboys who wouldn't know a solid story or a good character if it slapped them in the face QQd all day long.

suggesting all Garrosh's fans are shallow without understanding deep character resolve.

Can you make an argument ever without trying to insult people? In the same vein; people who support Thrall ignore all evidence of what a truly awful leader he really was and how badly his lax attitude towards his allies soured relations with the Alliance. Bit hard to make peace when you're allowing the Undead to abduct, kill and experiment with humans and dwarves from the north, allowing the Warsong Orcs to chop down trees only so the wood can rot in the forests, no longer fit to build with. It's blind fanboyism.

Yeah, Thrall sure was in control. Never taking responsibility for his own Horde's actions. That's one thing you can't say about Garrosh.

As I already said twice, I want someone who's in the middle. I don't want a passive peacefreak Jesus character like Thrall, and I don't want a genocidal asshole like Garrosh has been shown to be.

[Merie]

Oh hell yeah, but I miss saurfang more.

You want an orc with honor? one you can get behind?

"I am Saurfang. Brother of Broxigar. You know me to be the Supreme Commander of the Might of Kalimdor. An orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy.

I will never understand this obsession with dying. It's the same with Klingons, you gotta die to be honorable. Is it so terrible to achieve victory but still live? Is it so bad that one could survive battle after battle, war after war until ripe old age due to superior cunning, skill and tactics? Apparently not. Better to be the reckless oaf that charges in and dies young all "heroically" like in battle.

[Florena]

You do understand that this is just how they planned Garrosh from the start right? This wasn't an 11th hour choice, he was always going to end up this way.

In the interview with Christie Morgen, she revealed what the devs had spoken about, how Garrosh is a character with a weak core, someone who is easily malleable.



He has always been a character who uses bluster and bravado to convince people who's strong when in reality he's just a weak child at his core, still crying for external validation he never got from his father.

And the funny thing is, every person who has ever liked Garrosh for his bluster and bravado has never truly understood the character of Garrosh as his core, suggesting all Garrosh's fans are shallow without understanding deep character resolve.



---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 07:45 PM ----------



Well thats your opinion.

Blizzard has only said that garrosh was always planned to be a temporary warchief. They didn't say that they always planned for him to go out this way, it wasn't until they did MOP's story that they decided on this course. And your criticism of Garrosh's fans is pretty unfair. Just because they have different preferences in a character than you doesn't make them shallow. Garrosh had fains long before that interview with Golden, and still has fans despite it because some people like that he takes no crap from the alliance and aggressively peruses orcish interests. He makes mistakes, but some people like his aggressive attitude more than Thrall who they see as passive, and that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. You don't have to agree with a character's morality in real life to like them in a game. The truth is Garrosh could have gone either direction, dying a villain or becomming a hero, and while you were correct in which path blizz went, it doesn't change the fact that his character had the potential to go the other way. Some people like him more than Thrall, it's a perfectly valid opinion, you don't need to be condescending to people that disagree with you.

[DomesticViolence]

Thrall was great. Honorable but dangerous.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Blizzard has only said that garrosh was always planned to be a temporary warchief. They didn't say that they always planned for him to go out this way, it wasn't until they did MOP's story that they decided on this course. And your criticism of Garrosh's fans is pretty unfair. Just because they have different preferences in a character than you doesn't make them shallow. Garrosh had fains long before that interview with Golden, and still has fans despite it because some people like that he takes no crap from the alliance and aggressively peruses orcish interests. He makes mistakes, but some people like his aggressive attitude more than Thrall who they see as passive, and that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. You don't have to agree with a character's morality in real life to like them in a game. The truth is Garrosh could have gone either direction, dying a villain or becomming a hero, and while you were correct in which path blizz went, it doesn't change the fact that his character had the potential to go the other way. Some people like him more than Thrall, it's a perfectly valid opinion, you don't need to be condescending to people that disagree with you.

May want to edit that post out. It's a very big wall of text. Anyways people may like Garrosh but I have never seen an actual good argument for it.

[peggleftw]

Thrall was just smarter than Garrosh, he knew fighting the alliance was ultimately worthless, it was pointless wasting resources on fighting the alliance when there is a greater danger. we saw in borean tundra that if Garrosh was leading the horde in Wotlk, he would have attacked the alliance camps in northrend before the lich king. that would have led to failing the northrend campaign. Thrall wasn't a wimp of a carebear, he just wasn't foolish.

[Zaelsino]

May want to edit that post out. It's a very big wall of text. Anyways people may like Garrosh but I have never seen an actual good argument for it.

Eh, straight villains can be popular and entertaining characters. It's when people try to turn them into messianic heroes of love and justice that it becomes sketchy.

[peggleftw]

May want to edit that post out. It's a very big wall of text. Anyways people may like Garrosh but I have never seen an actual good argument for it.

Garrosh could have been done well, and brought some more war into the game, but Garrosh ended up being a complete fool and attacking everything he could for no reason. i wonder if blizzard had this planned, and had the orgrimmar raid sort of planned, or if they decided he had to go due to players hating him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Eh, straight villains can be popular and entertaining characters. It's when people try to turn them into messianic heroes of love and justice that it becomes sketchy.

Obviously they can. MY ISSUE is trying to justify said villain. NO PLEASE STOP IT. Heroes can be just as entertaining. It's just that people seem fixated on one thing and don't want to look at other things but I digress. Garrosh personally is fine in the character department. I may find him to be one of the biggest bastards on Azeroth but it doesn't mean I don't appreciate his development. I do and I await the next thing he will do. I'm weird like that. Though if you want to know more feel free to PM me.

[Ultramonkey]

Still laughing at the fact someone claimed Thrall's Horde lacked strength.

Under his leadership, the Horde fought under one banner, all fighting for the same goal. Under Garrosh, the bonds that tied the races together have been shattered to the point where they are all fed up and are on the brink of turning on their warmongering, bigoted Warchief.

[Khaza-R]

Still laughing at the fact someone claimed Thrall's Horde lacked strength.

Under his leadership, the Horde fought under one banner, all fighting for the same goal. Under Garrosh, the bonds that tied the races together have been shattered to the point where they are all fed up and are on the brink of turning on their warmongering, bigoted Warchief.

How so? You had the Forsaken doing pretty much whatever they pleased. They were researching their new plague, with little regard for the Horde at all. You had the trolls...doing pretty much nothing. I wouldn't really called that a single banner. Moreso it just seemed like everyone was pursuing their own interests under Thrall's reign.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

How so? You had the Forsaken doing pretty much whatever they pleased. They were researching their new plague, with little regard for the Horde at all. You had the trolls...doing pretty much nothing. I wouldn't really called that a single banner. Moreso it just seemed like everyone was pursuing their own interests under Thrall's reign.

Yes but the friendship with the Trolls was solid. Now it's nearly shattered much. Thrall's Horde was strong. Garrosh's Horde is united with Orcs and soon to be even Orcs as well. Garrosh's Horde is nothing but trouble.

[peggleftw]

How so? You had the Forsaken doing pretty much whatever they pleased. They were researching their new plague, with little regard for the Horde at all. You had the trolls...doing pretty much nothing. I wouldn't really called that a single banner. Moreso it just seemed like everyone was pursuing their own interests under Thrall's reign.

wasn't the new plague the one they used at the wrath gate? that wasa rebel forsaken faction, not Sylvanas' work.
and most of it is blizzard being lazy, the blood elfs, tauren and troll did nothing for years. but under Garroshes horde, Vol'jin hates him, Baine hates him, Sylvanas hates him, and lothremar has talked about leaving the horde because of Garrosh.

[Khaza-R]

wasn't the new plague the one they used at the wrath gate? that wasa rebel forsaken faction, not Sylvanas' work.
and most of it is blizzard being lazy, the blood elfs, tauren and troll did nothing for years. but under Garroshes horde, Vol'jin hates him, Baine hates him, Sylvanas hates him, and lothremar has talked about leaving the horde because of Garrosh.

The new plague is the product of the many, many quests you did in Vanilla to aid the Royal Apothecary Society in its production as weapon against the Scourge. Sylvanas made it, however Putress turned on the Horde and Alliance and used for his own agenda.

[MasterOfKnees]

Nah, I find Garrosh hilarious. It's obvious that we'll probably have to return to Thrall's ways sooner or later, whether he'll be Warchief or not, but I do like a warmongerer to spice up the lore a little. I do think it is timely to throw him off by this expansion though.

[Valarius]

How so? You had the Forsaken doing pretty much whatever they pleased. They were researching their new plague, with little regard for the Horde at all. You had the trolls...doing pretty much nothing. I wouldn't really called that a single banner. Moreso it just seemed like everyone was pursuing their own interests under Thrall's reign.

Exactly. A lot of Thrall fans don't seem to want to see what's put infront of them. Thrall's Horde was loose and each race just did whatever; he didn't really set boundaries for them, or punish them in any way when they went too far.

Case in point; Sylvanas' plague. She was developing it with the intention of killing all living things. Putress just beat her to it in deploying it. In Vanilla you had a bunch of quests in Brill and around Undercity all to do with helping the Royal Apothecary Society (which Sylvanas personally set up with the intention of creating a super-plague) test their latest concoctions on human and dwarf victims. It was no "secret" what she was doing, Thrall just didn't bother himself with what was going on in his group.

Then Wrathgate happens and what does Thrall do? Stop Varian from sacking the Undercity in revenge (bearing in mind he just lost his best and most loyal commander; the man who practically raised his son during his absence) but doesn't offer any indication that he will personally see to it that Sylvanas gets what's coming to her. In fact, after reclaiming the city she so stupidly lost to a demon and a society she created, she goes on to continue developing the plague which is later used against the Worgen.

Thrall appears to want peace, but has actually done very little as a leader to improve relations. Infact, by taking such a laid-back approach where his allies are concerned he has allowed them to sabotage the whole process and ensure the current Alliance leadership will never want to work with him.