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  1. #181
    Can you make a normal BIS ?

  2. #182
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deztruction View Post
    Can you make a normal BIS ?
    In the process of writing one now.

    Edit: T14N BiS List - http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-T15N-BiS-List

    Also, just to bring to everyone's attention, there are a few Thunderforged pieces popping up on Wowdb that were not previously listed prior to 5.2 launching. After a few weeks we should have a record of all the Thunderforged pieces available, and I'm sure Tecton will be able to update WrathCalcs with these new pieces. As such, there's a couple of pieces here that may change, like the cape, belt, boots and which piece of tier will be off-set. Will be interesting to see the changes, at least.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-03-08 at 01:00 AM.

  3. #183
    i guess i was wrong and thunderforged drops like a prom dates pants. dps at the end of this tier should be fun

  4. #184
    for a crit build, one small change would be reforging haste to crit on the main hand or maybe switching back to nadagast because it has a lot more crit and a yellow socket. (i will run numbers after raid, just noticed you updated) and thank you for this and the t14 bis list.

  5. #185
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aligx View Post
    for a crit build, one small change would be reforging haste to crit on the main hand or maybe switching back to nadagast because it has a lot more crit and a yellow socket. (i will run numbers after raid, just noticed you updated) and thank you for this and the t14 bis list.
    Good catch on the weapon, I'll fix that. I had it in WrathCalcs, just didn't update here. Nadagast's is a lot lower than Torall's because of the passive int you get from Torall's. Same goes for Ritual Dagger of the Mind's Eye. I compared the two latter weapons in the T14N list.

  6. #186
    Updated your latest version on the sheet Slippy (saved as T15H profile, will be uploaded in a few minutes), with a couple of changes:

    Breath of the Hydra Heroic TF swapped in, and Fetish of the Hydra Heroic TF swapped in too. Takes the profile back over hit cap by 13, so probably some room for juggling a few reforges to get optimal results.
    Spirit/Crit rather than Hit/Crit gems, as it's a better option if you need to use the items in a Resto set now and then.

  7. #187
    Ok, i've been thinking of something. Maybe it's just terribad, so i'll try to explain.

    On a critical optimisation, what about dropping 4PC T15 for only 2PC with HS Magaera's Head + Gloves on Dark animus.

    So let's say you drop heroic thunderforge items, is the bonus intell + secondary stats + socket(on gloves) enough worth it to compensate 4PC bonus ?

    As i said, maybe it's just so baaaaad so.

  8. #188
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    @Slippy Sorry to back peddle; so you're using incarnation+hotw, full crit, but past 5273 haste do you favor more haste over mastery, or mastery over haste?


    Vexxe looking for established and reliable RBG Team to push HOTH PM me.






  9. #189
    @xtramuscle more haste over mastery

  10. #190
    Haste is basically equal to Crit at 4t15H levels, Mastery is ~15% behind them. Actually, while checking this it's showing a DPS increase to swap a couple of gems back to Haste in the current profile Slippy. Dunno if you were just going with Crit because it's more useful in practice, which makes sense too.

    Dropping the 4 piece bonus for extra TF geared won't be worthwhile, it's worth ~7k on this profile at the moment (less in-game due to it interacting with NG, obviously, but still not low enough to be worth dropping).

  11. #191
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Haste is basically equal to Crit at 4t15H levels, Mastery is ~15% behind them. Actually, while checking this it's showing a DPS increase to swap a couple of gems back to Haste in the current profile Slippy. Dunno if you were just going with Crit because it's more useful in practice, which makes sense too.

    Dropping the 4 piece bonus for extra TF geared won't be worthwhile, it's worth ~7k on this profile at the moment (less in-game due to it interacting with NG, obviously, but still not low enough to be worth dropping).
    Yeah the general rule I'm going with is assuming crit > haste when we take a second or third target into account. It conflicts with the numbers WrathCalcs gives, but overall from the limited use of the 2-target modelling Hamlet did it showed crit substantially ahead of haste, and I doubt something that drastic would be so inaccurate (crit was around 50% ahead of haste).

    So the way I figure it, most fights in ToT involve more than 1 target, so crit > haste most of the time. So yes, just sticking with crit for the practical use of it. I was more concerned with the scaling of the haste breakpoint and how much it's reduced by the Sinister meta gem than with haste to be honest.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 02:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    @Slippy Sorry to back peddle; so you're using incarnation+hotw, full crit, but past 5273 haste do you favor more haste over mastery, or mastery over haste?
    Haste over mastery, definitely. As Tec said, it's a good deal behind haste and would likely still be behind with 2 or 3 targets considered.

    Edit: I'm going through the new H TF options at the moment to see if there's a better set. Because of the obscene amounts of spirit/hit on our gear, the only two options we really have for off-piece will be hat or chest, and the off-piece cannot have spirit or hit on it. This is why the current TF chest is a good off-piece to have. The Hood of Smoldering Flesh isn't very good, considering the 1.2k spirit over cap I can't seem to get rid of. This could change with other H TF options coming out that could replace some of the spirit on our gear, but at the moment it just isn't viable.

    Pretty much no changes, just going to stay with 13 over hit cap for the time being, better than 9 under hit cap imo.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-03-08 at 10:32 PM.

  12. #192
    Assuming every item has the chance to be Heroic Thunderforged wouldn't the cloak off Durumu take over as the better option?

  13. #193
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droodpile View Post
    Assuming every item has the chance to be Heroic Thunderforged wouldn't the cloak off Durumu take over as the better option?
    There was a big wave of Thunderforged items being added to the databases this week as people were able to loot the normal Thunderforged gear - we wont see the Heroic Thunderforged items in databases until at least next week, and probably not all of them until a week or two after. The cloak may be better, but since no item exists right now, hard to compare apples with a vacuum.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    There was a big wave of Thunderforged items being added to the databases this week as people were able to loot the normal Thunderforged gear - we wont see the Heroic Thunderforged items in databases until at least next week, and probably not all of them until a week or two after. The cloak may be better, but since no item exists right now, hard to compare apples with a vacuum.
    I'm going to try to put together some estimated versions of the remaining Thunderforged loot (done similarly to how we handled upgraded loot) when I look at profiles this weekend. Should let you experiment with those with a reasonable degree of accuracy, although it'll probably be a point out here or there until we see the actual versions.

  15. #195
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    I'm going to try to put together some estimated versions of the remaining Thunderforged loot (done similarly to how we handled upgraded loot) when I look at profiles this weekend. Should let you experiment with those with a reasonable degree of accuracy, although it'll probably be a point out here or there until we see the actual versions.
    Sweet, that'd be awesome Tec. It's looking like every item has a chance to be Thunderforged, so we shouldn't have any fiascos with items not existing like last tier.

  16. #196
    I saw a few days ago a debate on a problem about the warrior dps bis list if its better to go with 2set & 3 offset pieces or 4set & 1 offset piece, due to more overall stat gain from the 1st option. This led to remind me that our 4 set gives us 2 secondary stats mastery and crit for the duration of NG, now on a simple math going with shoulders and hands 2set and megaera thunderforged heroic helm (spirit+crit), horridon thunderforged heroic pants (mastery+crit) and ra-den thunderforged heroic chest (mastery+haste) might be a dps increase compared with a 4set combo while the set pieces can't be thunderforged and because you get overall more int, crit, haste, less mastery all the time while the bonus from 4set NG can't be 100% uptime. My request for any of you that is more familiar with wrathcalcs as i tried to do it and led nowhere(im a rookie/noob when it comes to all this numbers and excel in general) to run a sim and compare it with the list of bis already available. Ty.

  17. #197
    what do u think better? normal ilvl 522 mace of lei shen (spirit haste + red gem + legendary gem)
    or mace hc ilvl 517 of emperess? (500 int gem + legendary gem)
    Is it worth replacing the hc mace ilvl 517 or just wait until heroic lei shen (cus that will take few good weeks or even months) or should we go with heroic staff? (ji-kunHEROIC staff: spirit \ haste + blue gem + legendary gem) until we can put our hands on the heroic mace of the king. (same staff on horridon heroic: just hit + haste)
    Last edited by omri1212000; 2013-03-12 at 05:48 PM.

  18. #198
    Brewmaster Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omri1212000 View Post
    what do u think better? normal ilvl 522 mace of lei shen (spirit haste + red gem + legendary gem)
    or mace hc ilvl 517 of emperess? (500 int gem + legendary gem)
    Neither of those items are in the BIS list therefore it has nothing to do with this thread. Check WC for yourself or make a new thread.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-12 at 12:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzylamkin View Post
    I saw a few days ago a debate on a problem about the warrior dps bis list if its better to go with 2set & 3 offset pieces or 4set & 1 offset piece, due to more overall stat gain from the 1st option. This led to remind me that our 4 set gives us 2 secondary stats mastery and crit for the duration of NG, now on a simple math going with shoulders and hands 2set and megaera thunderforged heroic helm (spirit+crit), horridon thunderforged heroic pants (mastery+crit) and ra-den thunderforged heroic chest (mastery+haste) might be a dps increase compared with a 4set combo while the set pieces can't be thunderforged and because you get overall more int, crit, haste, less mastery all the time while the bonus from 4set NG can't be 100% uptime. My request for any of you that is more familiar with wrathcalcs as i tried to do it and led nowhere(im a rookie/noob when it comes to all this numbers and excel in general) to run a sim and compare it with the list of bis already available. Ty.
    This was already answered literally on this very page. It shouldn't be too hard to at least read the most recent posts before posting something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Dropping the 4 piece bonus for extra TF geared won't be worthwhile, it's worth ~7k on this profile at the moment (less in-game due to it interacting with NG, obviously, but still not low enough to be worth dropping).

  19. #199
    Does this affect UVLS in our BiS in any way?

    March 12 Hotfixes:
    Items

    Protections for unlucky streaks have been added for trinkets that use the RPPM (real procs per minute) system.

    Activation chance for trinket effects on a pull has been increased.
    Every time the trinket fails to activate, there's an increasing chance that it will activate.
    Increased the activation chance for agility and strength trinkets from Throne of Thunder by 10%.
    Increased the activation chance for intellect and spirit trinkets from Throne of Thunder by 5%.

  20. #200
    I wonder if that will be enough to bump the lei shen trinket back into the bis list...

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