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  1. #381
    Just jumping in for my one time this tier as I did with the last one. Using Incarnation/HotW with Wrathcalcs 130411 I got a total dps of 207380.19, which isn't a huge bump, but it's enough to warrant mention I thought. To get that, I swapped UVLS for Breath of the Hydra, don't reforge anything on it, and swap all but 3 of the Smooth gems to Quick. You lose around 1300 crit rating and 1700 int but gain 3100 haste and the next cap.

    So final stats were as follows:
    18717 int
    5110 hit
    10418 Haste
    14472 Crit
    1876 Mastery
    207380.19 dps

  2. #382
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzaman199 View Post
    Just jumping in for my one time this tier as I did with the last one. Using Incarnation/HotW with Wrathcalcs 130411 I got a total dps of 207380.19, which isn't a huge bump, but it's enough to warrant mention I thought. To get that, I swapped UVLS for Breath of the Hydra, don't reforge anything on it, and swap all but 3 of the Smooth gems to Quick. You lose around 1300 crit rating and 1700 int but gain 3100 haste and the next cap.

    So final stats were as follows:
    18717 int
    5110 hit
    10418 Haste
    14472 Crit
    1876 Mastery
    207380.19 dps
    Hitting the 10289 breakpoint is something that will probably come with 5.3 - the reasoning for this current set is that crit is actually higher than what WrathCalcs says since it can only model a single-target fight. With the next tier, however, we're including a SS proc waste modifier (probably set to around 20%), and it makes haste worth a lot more.

    And UVLS may be changed out for Hydra, so too with Incarnation for FoN.

    So stay tuned! You're on the right track, and I don't think a 5.3 update is far around the corner.

  3. #383
    Well yeah, but the patch is a little ways off! So that's still something that will work for now. :P

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzaman199 View Post
    Well yeah, but the patch is a little ways off! So that's still something that will work for now. :P
    Probably a month or so at the upper end. Not that far off.

  5. #385
    I was just wondering, what is better for moonkins. Tier chest for balance or for resto? REsto has much more needed stats ( haste and crit ) and balance tier chest has master and spirit. Just to know what to go for. I have T15 4 set bonus so its not like i need balance chest for it to make set.
    Link to my armory
    Last edited by markos82; 2013-04-21 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #386
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    I was just wondering, what is better for moonkins. Tier chest for balance or for resto? REsto has much more needed stats ( haste and crit ) and balance tier chest has master and spirit. Just to know what to go for. I have T15 4 set bonus so its not like i need balance chest for it to make set.
    Link to my armory
    If you're just going through normals at the moment, your best bet is to look at the T15 normal BiS list: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-T15N-BiS-List

    It's better to have gloves off-piece there, than it is to grab the resto chest. I did a stat comparison somewhere in those pages.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yes that is exactly what I meant when I said "That way you don't waste the Lunar like you said." It is the opener a lot of us have been using for weeks even without UVLS.
    Can someone enlighten me about this new opening rotation and how it relates to our rppm trinket procs. There was a GC tweet recently about rppm procs and not releasing in a wipe so are these "guaranteed" procs the reason people are changing their opener. I am currently running Cha'ye and Breath and haven't had many issues on the opener besides cha'yes buff falling off right before my CA.

  8. #388
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pippilongear View Post
    I am currently running Cha'ye and Breath and haven't had many issues on the opener besides cha'yes buff falling off right before my CA.
    Exactly. That is why we are popping INC/CA on the pull, you are more likely going to have both trinkets up on the pull, rather than 15 seconds into the fight.

  9. #389
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pippilongear View Post
    Can someone enlighten me about this new opening rotation and how it relates to our rppm trinket procs. There was a GC tweet recently about rppm procs and not releasing in a wipe so are these "guaranteed" procs the reason people are changing their opener. I am currently running Cha'ye and Breath and haven't had many issues on the opener besides cha'yes buff falling off right before my CA.
    As fas as I know, the opener is:

    start @ end of Solar, Inc/CA, once CA ends power through to Lunar, finish off Inc with that Lunar. You essentially start a quarter of a cycle earlier, but you end at the same point. As Stommped said, it's to ensure trinkets/meta gem are all procc'd for CA.

  10. #390
    The new opener also makes sure that your pre-potion is up for all of CA, and since the second usage happens when you are facing towards lunar it is much easier to time subsequent uses.

  11. #391
    I've seen a lot better burst using said opener, especially on fights with more than 2 targets (magaera, Council, Twins).

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    If you're just going through normals at the moment, your best bet is to look at the T15 normal BiS list: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-T15N-BiS-List

    It's better to have gloves off-piece there, than it is to grab the resto chest. I did a stat comparison somewhere in those pages.
    We are doing normals only atm, but i think from next week we will progress into HC/

    Well i looked on askmrrobot and Balance tier chest is higher placed then resto chest. Not sure why since with resto ill be getting some 1000crit mroe while losing 230haste and with moonkin tier chest ill be losing some 100crit, some 500haste while getting 1000 mastery. So im not sure why is that better ( well lsoing top stats while getting mastery ). I could go for gloves but its 2 much of a hassle changining 2 items

    So what would you say, should i go for tier resto chest or tier balance chest?

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    As fas as I know, the opener is:

    start @ end of Solar, Inc/CA, once CA ends power through to Lunar, finish off Inc with that Lunar. You essentially start a quarter of a cycle earlier, but you end at the same point. As Stommped said, it's to ensure trinkets/meta gem are all procc'd for CA.
    Would it be good practice to proc Solar during countdown for NG or is shapeshift gcd (Inc) not affected by haste effects?

  14. #394
    Shapeshifts don't benefit from haste. They're always 1.5 seconds.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    We are doing normals only atm, but i think from next week we will progress into HC/

    Well i looked on askmrrobot and Balance tier chest is higher placed then resto chest. Not sure why since with resto ill be getting some 1000crit mroe while losing 230haste and with moonkin tier chest ill be losing some 100crit, some 500haste while getting 1000 mastery. So im not sure why is that better ( well lsoing top stats while getting mastery ). I could go for gloves but its 2 much of a hassle changining 2 items

    So what would you say, should i go for tier resto chest or tier balance chest?
    If you consider it to much of a hassle, then why do you even care what's best? Getting it is to much of a hassle, after all.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    If you consider it to much of a hassle, then why do you even care what's best? Getting it is to much of a hassle, after all.
    Read again dont just jump to conclusions. To get 2 items i need a lot more dkp and it will take at least 3-4 weeks considering my dkp standings atm. Also keeping in mind that those items have to drop ( gloves ). Since we are going into HC next week any dps increase is good so that is why I asked....If you cant answer the question then please dont write anything....

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Hitting the 10289 breakpoint is something that will probably come with 5.3 - the reasoning for this current set is that crit is actually higher than what WrathCalcs says since it can only model a single-target fight. With the next tier, however, we're including a SS proc waste modifier (probably set to around 20%), and it makes haste worth a lot more.

    And UVLS may be changed out for Hydra, so too with Incarnation for FoN.

    So stay tuned! You're on the right track, and I don't think a 5.3 update is far around the corner.
    So, for a while WC has shown that on singletarget the haste BP is better (even if it's a tiny bit), yet the BiS list was kept at full crit because it was supposedly better for multidotting (a claim made with no real proof since T15 and which I could give plenty of arguements against), and we've found out that crit should even loose some of it's value because atm WC doesn't waste any SS procs making crit a way stronger stat than it should be. I don't see why we'd have to wait until 5.3 to adjust to the haste BP.

  18. #398
    If you think haste is better then go for it. This topic isnt 'do this exact thing for best dps on every encounter in T15'

    I personally sit at 41% crit raid buffed and i love it. That said i lose some deeps from SS procs wasted, however its not like i am stringing them all the time, i still get periods of 10 seconds sometimes without one.

    I actually agree with slippy that with 5.3 we will see many people hitting the next haste BP and still maintain a high crit chance.
    I tried playing with haste at times, i dont feel the same gain as with crit tbh. However i plan to stop stacking crit around 45% raid buffed and probably go haste then int. However i have not finished checking my calculations completely.

  19. #399
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    So, for a while WC has shown that on singletarget the haste BP is better (even if it's a tiny bit), yet the BiS list was kept at full crit because it was supposedly better for multidotting (a claim made with no real proof since T15 and which I could give plenty of arguements against), and we've found out that crit should even loose some of it's value because atm WC doesn't waste any SS procs making crit a way stronger stat than it should be. I don't see why we'd have to wait until 5.3 to adjust to the haste BP.
    Because then I'd need to do two updates instead of one. If I update now, it'll require fiddling for the haste breakpoint and checking for upgrades, or I can wait until 5.3 and do a full revision with 2/2 upgrades in mind. 5.3 also brings about more changes for single-target like the inclusion of FoN, so all the more reason to lump these updates together.

    Also, it's not the haste breakpoint that is what we're really focussing on, it's the additional benefit of haste itself and how it is vastly reduced after the GCD cap of 10296. Crit > haste is not a claim made without proof for T15, nor was it made without proof for T14. You're free to edit back in the limited functionality of multi-dotting in WrathCalcs, but it does show crit gain much more than haste when just two targets are considered. Even with 20% of SS procs being wasted, crit is still higher, so we've taken this as the best route. I apologise if this strategy has seemed steeped in an ungrounded basis, but I based that decision from numerous outcomes, including the WrathCalcs functionality I said earlier, T14 general consensus, and from the theorycrafting chats I had with a few other chickens. It's not something I just changed because I felt like it, and neither will I change it back on a whim either.

    Oh, and if you're so inclined to hit the GCD cap at this point already, I'm not saying it wont be disadvantageous. All I'm saying is this list will wait until 5.3 to adjust for the GCD cap.

  20. #400
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Did we ever determine if there were actual haste bps for # of Treant casts? And how/if we should be focusing on gearing around that in 5.3?

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