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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Isnt Breath > Wushoo if you cant make use of the hit?
    Emphasis mine.

    Check the OP. The set is actually slightly below cap.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    Check the OP. The set is actually slightly below cap.
    Touché

    Wtb less spirit gear for my dr00d :P

  3. #523
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    In the latest WC 130605 I see Intellect ahead of 2xCrit by a small margin already and I have only 8261 crit.

    My stats (unbuffed, Moonkin form):
    10438 Haste
    8261 Crit
    1590 Mastery
    22246 Intel

    Using my usual Inc+HotW in WC
    Crit 2.93 x2 = 5.86 < Intel 5.92

    and FoN+HotW
    Crit x2 = 6.00 < Intel 6.12

    In both sims I set SS wastage to 0.1 in case it was devaluing Crit
    Odd! I'll have to check that out when I get home later tonight. I don't doubt ya, but if that is really the case you can swap a couple of gems and re-evaluate the stats to ensure you're still benefitting. I'll have a good look at the equivalence point when I can WrathCalcs you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-06 at 11:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexxzz View Post
    Maybe i reach the number of Crit with my current gear already.

    I can't post any links, so you have to look for my logs or my armory link yourself.

    My stats:

    Haste -> 10498
    Crit -> 17160 (+1k 4p Bonus)
    Mastery -> 1854 (+1k 4p Bonus)
    Int -> 22294

    Yesterday i did much #1 Rankings in 10m HC ToT (7 Bosses) and especially the treants felt very good at Qon and Twins.

    So my question is - Should i gem 3k crit to 1,5k int or should i stay on the Crit gems?
    Like with Juvencus, I'll have a good look at the 2x crit = int equivalence point later tonight, and I'll import you to confirm.

    Got lots of things to do tonight:
    • compile the DoT refresh sheet I've been thinking about thanks to Vexxe
    • do some modded SimCraft trials to see if it uses FoN correctly and see the DPS spread of L60/90 talent choices
    • attempt to analyse a couple of top Jin'rokh fights to see if they agree with SimCraft/WrathCalcs expectations of HotW vs NV and FoN vs Incarnation, then compare with less lucky logs (top 100-200 ranks)
    • look at the 2x crit = int point and determine how this'll affect the lists
    • after all that's done, fix up the talent section of the Moonkin Guide and reformat some stuff

    Mostly writing this list so I can remember. Quite excited to have a look at all these things. Sitting in a car for 7 days gives you lots of time to think lol.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-06 at 11:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    Check the OP. The set is actually slightly below cap.
    Only that way because of the Ra-den loot unfortunately. There's ways to incorporate Wushoo's without it but it's difficult at best.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-06-06 at 07:52 PM.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Only that way because of the Ra-den loot unfortunately. There's ways to incorporate Wushoo's without it but it's difficult at best.
    Sure, but he was talking about the BiS list, not his own gear.

  5. #525
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Sure, but he was talking about the BiS list, not his own gear.
    I know was just surprised you could fit in Wushoo's haha.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Odd! I'll have to check that out when I get home later tonight. I don't doubt ya, but if that is really the case you can swap a couple of gems and re-evaluate the stats to ensure you're still benefitting. I'll have a good look at the equivalence point when I can WrathCalcs you.
    Must have been gear/trinket interaction because I got Cha-Ye's tonight and 2xCrit got slightly ahead again. Almost same difference (0.06-0.10) points but in favour of crit this time.

  7. #527
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Must have been gear/trinket interaction because I got Cha-Ye's tonight and 2xCrit got slightly ahead again. Almost same difference (0.06-0.10) points but in favour of crit this time.
    Interesting, may be as you said crit interacting with the proc of Cha-ye's (on crit), thereby making crit increase the uptime of the int proc and being worth more per point. Regardless, I'll have a look into it more in ~4 hours .

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Interesting, may be as you said crit interacting with the proc of Cha-ye's (on crit), thereby making crit increase the uptime of the int proc and being worth more per point. Regardless, I'll have a look into it more in ~4 hours .
    It's probably the crit modifier on the proc chance.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Interesting, may be as you said crit interacting with the proc of Cha-ye's (on crit), thereby making crit increase the uptime of the int proc and being worth more per point. Regardless, I'll have a look into it more in ~4 hours .
    Yeah Cha being BiS is probably why it hasn't be noticed/mentioned before. Seems to me that we are already in the Intellect gemming region and that the trinket's way of procing is what keeps Crit higher. And that's with 0.1-0.2 SS waste. The difference will be more pronounced with the real waste values.

  10. #530
    Personally once us mid-range skill bracket moonkins move into the higher levels of gear i can see int being a viable gemming route to negate lost starsurges, as some of us are not the best in the world at actually putting this theory into practice (speaking for myself here). I dont know what it is but when I run along side vexxe he just decimates me, not for lack of trying on my part, but i just cannot seem to work out how to do the same range of damage, yes im aware that gear scaling will help, but even so.

    Looking forward to seeing this DoT Refresh idea once you get your brain behind it Slippy, was briefly speaking to Vexxe about it on wednesday.
    Last edited by Drayarr; 2013-06-07 at 01:41 AM.

  11. #531
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Just remember that a BiS list is an entire set, and not just individual pieces. Due to your own individual gearing, other pieces may end up being better in the short term. That's why we have WrathCalcs.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  12. #532
    I checked my wrathcalcs also, found 2xcrit > int but only slightly, which tells me that int could be a more useful stat, especially on some fights where there is massive SS proc wastage like horridon?

    I am very curious to see what you find slippy, but i was always under the assumption that i would gem more int into my gear at around 16k crit since i think that is 40% unbuffed if i remember correctly. So raid situations you will be edging close to 50%.

    You are probably right about it being a 'next' tier thing.

  13. #533
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Personally once us mid-range skill bracket moonkins move into the higher levels of gear i can see int being a viable gemming route to negate lost starsurges, as some of us are not the best in the world at actually putting this theory into practice (speaking for myself here). I dont know what it is but when I run along side vexxe he just decimates me, not for lack of trying on my part, but i just cannot seem to work out how to do the same range of damage, yes im aware that gear scaling will help, but even so.

    Looking forward to seeing this DoT Refresh idea once you get your brain behind it Slippy, was briefly speaking to Vexxe about it on wednesday.
    I tried my hand at it, asked Hamlet/Tec if they could have a look at it if they have the time. You can find a link to it yourself on my Twitter, and I'll let Vexxe know as well.

    Haven't got around to doing the other stuff on my list yet, probably get around to it over the next few days, including looking at 2x crit = int for 5.4.

  14. #534
    Is there any data for this gear set the OP has regarding professions? I'm looking at BS/Engi/tailor and wondering if perhaps BS could be losing its value somewhat in comparison to tailor at these gear levels. Of course no epic gems out atm so could change in a few months.

  15. #535
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Made a post about the DoT refresh sheet over on the EJ thread - http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130885-...3/#post2299443

    @fappa - BS should still have its bonus of 640 crit, just two crit gems, right? I'm using Engineering/Tailoring because the procs should be better when stacked with other cooldowns. The average value of the procs is in line with 320 int, so they should be at the worst in-line with other professions. Blacksmithing should only be a little bit higher than the "normal" 320 int professions, but lower than Engineering/Tailoring because of their proc/buff-based bonus.

  16. #536
    Righty-oh, Slippy my good man, Could you in your infinite wisdom, take a look over my gear, im a country MILE over hit cap, and about 100 haste over cap and my brain cannot seem to work out any way to reforge or gem it down closer to either cap. Ive tried. Alot. Need some input from a different perspective.

  17. #537
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Nothing I can see in particular for you to fix up and drop some hit. One thing that could really save your bacon would be the ilvl 600 cloak since it has no spirit. How far away are you from finishing your Titan Runestones?

    Other than that, the only thing I can think of is trying to get the Abandoned Zandalari Moonstrap as it has no hit innately. A crit/hit or haste/hit gem in the blue socket should just let you get the hit cap. I don't know if you have it already or might have disenchanted it (in which case you could get it restored), but those are really your only two options.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Nothing I can see in particular for you to fix up and drop some hit. One thing that could really save your bacon would be the ilvl 600 cloak since it has no spirit. How far away are you from finishing your Titan Runestones?

    Other than that, the only thing I can think of is trying to get the Abandoned Zandalari Moonstrap as it has no hit innately. A crit/hit or haste/hit gem in the blue socket should just let you get the hit cap. I don't know if you have it already or might have disenchanted it (in which case you could get it restored), but those are really your only two options.
    Its dropped once, i was sitting out >.>. Edit - Twice, first week i joined it dropped, the guild master at the time got it.
    Im on 6/12, and im gonna miss this week as im heading to england for Download Festival, might be able to squeeze LFR before reset when i get back and grab a cheeky runestone but im not sure. So 6 weeks at least.

  19. #539
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher636 View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and say that Courageous Primal Diamond would be the ideal meta gem choice.
    Think you may have posted that in the wrong thread. Courageous Primal Diamond is a healing gem, and the gives moonkin no benefit.

    Also, check that you don't have useless toolbars/addons for your internet browser, as you're passively posting spam in your posts.

    Edit: nevermind, you're a spambot.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-06-11 at 07:19 AM.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Righty-oh, Slippy my good man, Could you in your infinite wisdom, take a look over my gear, im a country MILE over hit cap, and about 100 haste over cap and my brain cannot seem to work out any way to reforge or gem it down closer to either cap. Ive tried. Alot. Need some input from a different perspective.
    Only thing I can notice you could change is one Haste/Hit gem can be changed into Haste/Stamina as Hit has 0 value over cap it'd be better. But it's up to you if that would be worth it.

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