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  1. #561
    Sadly, most of it drops of Ra-Den. Why does that guy have to have half my stuff >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I have a ~3 year old version of OpenOffice - last time I spoke to him, he said WrathCalcs would still work fine with OO, just importing would be an issue due to coding. You sure it isn't working for you?
    In current versions, you'll just get a whole lot of #514 fields which basically render the sheet worthless.
    3 years should be well before whatever change broke them, that was some time after DS released.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Yeah, I'm trying to find time to fix whatever has broken with an Open Office update. Moving country in 5 days so can't guarantee when that'll be, sorry!

  2. #562
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Sadly, most of it drops of Ra-Den. Why does that guy have to have half my stuff >.<

    In current versions, you'll just get a whole lot of #514 fields which basically render the sheet worthless.
    3 years should be well before whatever change broke them, that was some time after DS released.
    I think that was one of the main problems this tier - most of the non-spirit loot came from Ra-den and wasn't easily accessible to most raiders, forcing them to go for sub-optimal pieces for spirit reasons. Wushoolay's only fits into a non-Ra-den loot sheet if you take non-BiS pieces to accommodate, like what Miscam has done. You may get more DPS overall by doing it that way, but the point is that you can't get the best pieces if you want other best pieces. It's really a shame that the Ra-den loot gating exists - they should have put the non-spirit loot on one of the other 12 bosses so everyone could use it.

    Still odd that an older version of OpenOffice works fine, they must have done something with either their macros or cell referencing in a newer update. Regardless, I think Tec's back but I'm not sure if he reads this thread atm. I could probably pester him on Twitter though!

    Excited to see the T16 pieces though - while the 4-piece might be underwhelming, the trinkets and high stat inflation looks like it could be a fun tier. Then again, I can see a lot of unrest in the boomkin community if the higher stats cause a disruption in stat allocation ideology. We just have to look back at how hard people fought against haste and going for the 10289 haste breakpoint to see the kind of uphill struggles we might have in T16. At least we wont have to make an argument for haste anymore!

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I think that was one of the main problems this tier - most of the non-spirit loot came from Ra-den and wasn't easily accessible to most raiders, forcing them to go for sub-optimal pieces for spirit reasons. Wushoolay's only fits into a non-Ra-den loot sheet if you take non-BiS pieces to accommodate, like what Miscam has done. You may get more DPS overall by doing it that way, but the point is that you can't get the best pieces if you want other best pieces. It's really a shame that the Ra-den loot gating exists - they should have put the non-spirit loot on one of the other 12 bosses so everyone could use it.

    Still odd that an older version of OpenOffice works fine, they must have done something with either their macros or cell referencing in a newer update. Regardless, I think Tec's back but I'm not sure if he reads this thread atm. I could probably pester him on Twitter though!

    Excited to see the T16 pieces though - while the 4-piece might be underwhelming, the trinkets and high stat inflation looks like it could be a fun tier. Then again, I can see a lot of unrest in the boomkin community if the higher stats cause a disruption in stat allocation ideology. We just have to look back at how hard people fought against haste and going for the 10289 haste breakpoint to see the kind of uphill struggles we might have in T16. At least we wont have to make an argument for haste anymore!
    The 4set is indeed underwhelming, but the stats on the tier pieces look allright. Recently I used simcraft on my character, and it calculated that intellect is 1 and crit is 0.51 still, but I reckon that when I get to 15k crit this will move to 0.48 or something and intellect will be stronger again. I'm not yet completely hc geared, so maybe I will reach that point in this tier already. Making the stat juggeling very fun next tier

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Excited to see the T16 pieces though - while the 4-piece might be underwhelming, the trinkets and high stat inflation looks like it could be a fun tier. Then again, I can see a lot of unrest in the boomkin community if the higher stats cause a disruption in stat allocation ideology. We just have to look back at how hard people fought against haste and going for the 10289 haste breakpoint to see the kind of uphill struggles we might have in T16. At least we wont have to make an argument for haste anymore!
    I for one, would still be concerned that if a majority of the pieces turn out to have base haste we are going to have some issues. Like I mentioned in another thread, GCD Clipped Wraths? I personally do not thing the dev's are actually playing / looking at moonkins in a raiding scenario to evaluate gear / teir set bonuses/stats.
    There may be some serious issues if we cannot force haste to stay close to the 10289/10296 caps.
    Again this is purely subjective and of course if the items come out from ptr with next to no base haste I of course will retract my statements.
    Just voicing my potential concerns over what may or may not happen.
    My 2c.

  5. #565
    The stats on the tier pieces (unless they changed them) are just placeholders, they are basically the t15 stats.

  6. #566
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    So basically we want full crit/mastery itemization on tier gear then lol - can't see it happening myself.


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  7. #567
    Increase the cast time and damage of wrath, problem solved. They did the same thing for elemental shaman's lava burst, I don't see why this shouldn't be done here. Reaching a point where our secondary stats are capping out in value to a degree really sucks.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Increase the cast time and damage of wrath, problem solved. They did the same thing for elemental shaman's lava burst, I don't see why this shouldn't be done here. Reaching a point where our secondary stats are capping out in value to a degree really sucks.
    They don't want Wrath and Starfire to have the same cast time, that would force them to generate the same amont of energy and the spec would seem a lot less interesting. i.e. 8 Wraths, 8 Starfires, 8 Wraths, 8 Starfires, etc. etc. with SS mixed in whenever it procs.

  9. #569
    If there is alot of haste we are going to have alot of wasted time with clipping with wraths as its happening for me with ng meta lust phases already, cant imagine what it would be like with 12k+ haste .5 sec wraths? 1sec waste of just doing nothing? It would need to be addressed somehow, wrath also hits like a wet noodle, could hit the boss with my epeen and it would do more dps

  10. #570
    Half a second of wasted time, as the GCD would be lowered to 1 sec at that point. Least if I'm not forgetting something.

  11. #571
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    If there is alot of haste we are going to have alot of wasted time with clipping with wraths as its happening for me with ng meta lust phases already, cant imagine what it would be like with 12k+ haste .5 sec wraths? 1sec waste of just doing nothing? It would need to be addressed somehow, wrath also hits like a wet noodle, could hit the boss with my epeen and it would do more dps
    So lust phases should be timed with Starfire usage for most of it (during CA, during Lunar), so let's look at it without lust in mind.

    We've got ~40% of the time the meta will be active, so 60% without it. With meta buff up you'll require 11649 haste rating for Wrath to become a 1 second cast time. At this point we expect to see a drop in the value of haste, but not as much as the drop from getting GCD capped.

    Without the meta buff up you'll need 27894 haste rating for Wrath to be capped. Since I very much doubt anyone in their right mind will stack haste purposefully past 10296, we can think of this as an extreme upper limit.

    Therefore, any haste value below 11649 is useful in terms of Wrath - you'll still get that post-10296 value from it, which is about the same value as mastery. If you have haste between 11649 and 27894, 60% of the time the haste is Wrath-useful, 40% of the time it isn't. Since we wont go over 27894 haste, that point is moot. The value of haste should just be a combination of the two values with and without the meta, accounting for the difference in uptime. Regardless, you can be certain haste will be below mastery at this point, and probably our lowest stat.

    I don't think haste will be that much of a problem, we can really go up to the 11.6k cap with the meta without clipping Wrath or feeling like the haste is worthless. Mastery and crit are still good contenders on gear, and I'm sure we'll be swimming in Spirit again so it shouldn't cause too many issues. It's really too early to make conjectures on gear we haven't seen unfortunately.

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by dark666105 View Post
    The stats on the tier pieces (unless they changed them) are just placeholders, they are basically the t15 stats.
    Was thinking the same, or have I missed something that they put the real stats on it?

  13. #573
    Last I saw they were using the stat allocation of T15.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    <Wall of Text>
    Thank you Slippy
    So you reckon we will get decent stat allocation or will blizzard fail horribly and will we get boat loads of spirit?
    Just throwing ideas out there to see what other people are thinking as the items are going to be here soon (I hope) and I really hope we get decent stats and are not just drowning in spirit/hit..guess we just have to wait and see..

  15. #575
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Thank you Slippy
    So you reckon we will get decent stat allocation or will blizzard fail horribly and will we get boat loads of spirit?
    Just throwing ideas out there to see what other people are thinking as the items are going to be here soon (I hope) and I really hope we get decent stats and are not just drowning in spirit/hit..guess we just have to wait and see..
    I think we'll see similar stat allocation to what we got this tier, maybe with less of an emphasis on haste. Mastery will most likely be on a lot of pieces again, and typically they'll make the off-pieces useful for Boomkins, Restos and Mistweavers alike. Crit's also good for Mistweavers, so the least represented stat should be haste, but that's purely conjecture. Since haste is good for us up to a point, crit is really good and mastery seems like it's becoming likable, I doubt we'll be terribly upset with stat distribution on gear. Maybe on tier pieces since they don't allow for much customisation, but for off-pieces there should be enough options to fit it into our playstyle. Hopefully there's not an abundance of BiS gear on a heroic-only end-tier boss like Ra-den, but one can only hope.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I think we'll see similar stat allocation to what we got this tier, maybe with less of an emphasis on haste. Mastery will most likely be on a lot of pieces again, and typically they'll make the off-pieces useful for Boomkins, Restos and Mistweavers alike. Crit's also good for Mistweavers, so the least represented stat should be haste, but that's purely conjecture. Since haste is good for us up to a point, crit is really good and mastery seems like it's becoming likable, I doubt we'll be terribly upset with stat distribution on gear. Maybe on tier pieces since they don't allow for much customisation, but for off-pieces there should be enough options to fit it into our playstyle. Hopefully there's not an abundance of BiS gear on a heroic-only end-tier boss like Ra-den, but one can only hope.
    I guess we just have to play the waiting game and hope that the devs get it a little more accurate with stats (no overkill with spirit :P) this time

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