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  1. #121
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathrys View Post
    UVLS might be the best theoretically but may not be the best for every encounter. If you look at a progression point of view then other trinkets might be better than UVLS.

    Take for instance Elegon or Tsulong where you have to do short burst damage very often. A trinket like LotC with 40% uptime on the proc will be better to handle the adds than UVLS. For this situation if UVLS procs then you'll destroy the add but you'll lack dps most of the time because you can go for 3-4mins without a proc.
    True, and progression does mean you would prefer consistency. UVLS is still a very strong trinket, and typically progression also prefers higher DPS - UVLS provides a very strong buff that can be utilitised in many different ways, including using SS procs and the 100% crit dots on targets that need to be burnt down quickly, assuming the proc occurs sometime during that interval. If it doesn't, we still have enough burst capabilities with Incarnation/pots that would suffice. If it's one particular spot that will require burst every single time and preparation, like H Vizier going into P2, you couldn't rely on UVLS proccing just as you couldn't rely on Hydra or Cha-Ye's proccing at that exact moment either. All you can really do is prepare with the things you can use, like any sort of cooldown. Trinket procs are exactly that: they're meant to proc randomly over a set interval with the realPPM system. LotC is a very high uptime trinket, and it doesn't look like any of the trinkets available in 5.2 will be similar. Also remember that LotC was our best trinket for this tier by a very large margin. UVLS should (hopefully) be a very competitive trinket, practically.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathrys View Post
    UVLS might be the best theoretically but may not be the best for every encounter. If you look at a progression point of view then other trinkets might be better than UVLS.

    Take for instance Elegon or Tsulong where you have to do short burst damage very often. A trinket like LotC with 40% uptime on the proc will be better to handle the adds than UVLS. For this situation if UVLS procs then you'll destroy the add but you'll lack dps most of the time because you can go for 3-4mins without a proc.
    You can't really count on any proc trinket (including non-RPPM proc trinkets) for key burst situations like that unless the stars align and the time intervals are perfectly lined up. So the argument is moot between the two trinkets. If one was on use, then you would have a point.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    For having "Nearly a hundred hours" worth of testing, you are horribly uninformed. Starsurge extends the DoT, which keeps the 100% crit buff on it. In fact, if you had tested the trinket for even 40 seconds, you would have noticed that. I agree that the trinket is quite Random, but you are way off base in thinking that Starsurges extension is removing the 100% crit.
    Eh, better be safe than sorry. You never know what Blizz might have changed (even if only accidentally).
    This one shouldn't be terribly hard to test with sufficient confidence anyway.

    There's also the reset mechanic after the full normal duration that was introduced for Shadows. Has anybody checked whether that applies to all (applicable) DoTs or only Shadow DoTs?

  4. #124
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amie573 View Post
    So I guess trinkets are placeholders?
    They were when I originally made the list, but the current two trinkets are BiS for the moment, until we can decide whether or not Cha-Ye's is better for two or more targets (additional crit).

  5. #125
    Pandaren Monk Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Eh, better be safe than sorry. You never know what Blizz might have changed (even if only accidentally).
    This one shouldn't be terribly hard to test with sufficient confidence anyway.

    There's also the reset mechanic after the full normal duration that was introduced for Shadows. Has anybody checked whether that applies to all (applicable) DoTs or only Shadow DoTs?

    As of yesterday's testing it was working the same as it has always been since they added the trinket for testing. As for the second part the empowered dots crit every tick until they fall off, so no that mechanic is not present for us just like GC described.

  6. #126
    Update on the crit trinket:"- Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD. Proc rate multiplied by 0.00 for non-caster specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.5 for Balance Druids."

    Has this been in all the time, or just a clarification?

  7. #127
    Pandaren Monk Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    Update on the crit trinket:"- Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD. Proc rate multiplied by 0.00 for non-caster specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.5 for Balance Druids."

    Has this been in all the time, or just a clarification?
    No one really knows for sure, but I would guess they added it the same time they changed our dots to snapshot crit. Kinda stinks but it was a expected nerf to a very powerful trinket.

    If your question is has WC account for this reduced chance to proc for us then the answer would be no. This is the first we are hearing about this but I am sure it has been in the game for awhile now.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-03-04 at 08:04 PM.

  8. #128
    Well, whatever it is, this is how it is now. Rather harsh nerf.

    Proc-chance for the legendary Meta is a bit ridiculous... 7.30656 RPPM? At 10s duration, that buff should basically be permanent... only one more ridiculous is Destrolock at 11.36 RPPM.

    Not to mention that it gives spell haste, so it even increases its own proc chance.
    Last edited by huth; 2013-03-04 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #129
    Some questions to the new changes:

    Is the UVLS nerf enough to make other trinkets surpass it? I hope so, because I think this is a crappy designed trinket, though I'd be fun as hell seeing those GCD Starsurges :P I'd prefer taking a 2nd stat trinket instead...

    What was the coefficient for the legendary gem prior? Afaik it had none, but I could be wrong though...

    How does the RPPM mechanic work? For example the legendary gem has 1.18 RPPM...does that mean that we get +- 1.18 procs per minute, further reduced by our haste etc.? How is the chance decreased/increased after too many/too few procs compared to the average?

    Does NG affect the RPPM mechanic (couldn't quite get that from GC...)?

    Will the 6.xx coefficient for Moonkins infact multiplicate the procs we gain by 6.xx or how is the formula? Because this seems kind of ridiculous, because the proc lasts 10 seconds and we'd be pretty much able to have the buff all the time, but I seriously think (hope?) I got something wrong with the RPPM mechanic

  10. #130
    RPPM roughly means that you get RPPM*(1+haste%) procs per minute on average, no matter what you do. The more attacks that can proc the effect you land in a certain time frame, the lower the chance per attack to proc it.

    For the haste%, it uses the higher value of spell and melee haste. NG is spell haste, so it should ideed increase the proc chance.


    According to GC, meta proc chance is 1.18*specMod*(1+haste%). So, yes, we get 6.192 times as many procs as a spec not mentioned.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Some questions to the new changes:

    Is the UVLS nerf enough to make other trinkets surpass it? I hope so, because I think this is a crappy designed trinket, though I'd be fun as hell seeing those GCD Starsurges :P I'd prefer taking a 2nd stat trinket instead...
    I think it will still be ahead, once you get the legendary meta gem, for reasons i'll outline later.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    What was the coefficient for the legendary gem prior? Afaik it had none, but I could be wrong though...
    They didn't list the class specific co-efficient before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    How does the RPPM mechanic work? For example the legendary gem has 1.18 RPPM...does that mean that we get +- 1.18 procs per minute, further reduced by our haste etc.? How is the chance decreased/increased after too many/too few procs compared to the average?

    Does NG affect the RPPM mechanic (couldn't quite get that from GC...)?

    Will the 6.xx coefficient for Moonkins infact multiplicate the procs we gain by 6.xx or how is the formula? Because this seems kind of ridiculous, because the proc lasts 10 seconds and we'd be pretty much able to have the buff all the time, but I seriously think (hope?) I got something wrong with the RPPM mechanic
    The RPPM rate increases based on our haste. The more haste we have, the more procs we get on the RPPM system. So with a 7.xx coefficent (which will increase even higher once we proc it) on the legendary meta gem, we (should) have a 100% uptime on the 30% haste buff. That, coupled with our natural affinity for haste and NG 15% haste buff will bring our UVLS proc rate back above .5 RPPM. That is why we have a base .25 RPPM on UVLS, otherwise we would push it above 1 RPPM.

    They are probably going to fine tune our proc chance, because it seems extremely powerful for us now, and will lead to a very different gearing strategy if we have a permanent bloodlust.

  12. #132
    So we have 3 options...

    1.) Typo, it should be .6192, which rather fits the scheme (well, beside of destro and Ele)
    2.) No typo, intented, Blizzard thinks we are worse then we are and tries to balance us about the proc
    3.) No typo, intended, Blizzard will nerf bat us soon as this seems ridic op cO

    But well, the thought of a perma BL seems like shit tons of fun though ^.^

  13. #133
    4) The formula isn't what we think it is and the multiplier is added in some freakish way.

  14. #134
    I really can't see them leaving it at 6.192 either... but for now that's what it says. It will be weeks before anybody gets the thing, anyway, so let's just wait and see.

  15. #135
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    On UVLS: if this stays like it is at a 0.5 multiplier for us by tomorrow, I'll most likely swap it out for Cha-Ye's and just it with Hydra. Because the proc rate is being cut in half, there's a good chance on any given fight you'll lose 1 or 2 procs, and it will severely impact the usefulness of the trinket. Furthermore, if it's in-line DPS-wise with the other trinkets, there's no need to complicate our rotation with something that doesn't have any tangible benefit.

    On the meta gem: the Sinister gem is quite a bit above our normal Burning Primal Diamond, so it reasons that even if it's a typo and should be a 0.6192 multiplier, the Sinister Primal Diamond should still be ahead. If it's not a typo, then we'd obviously keep it - it would also mean we need to compute different haste breakpoints, as NG/Sinister would be active for most of the time, and a new haste breakpoint would take over as the dominant one. Though, this is assuming the multiplier isn't a typo, which it probably is.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    On UVLS: if this stays like it is at a 0.5 multiplier for us by tomorrow, I'll most likely swap it out for Cha-Ye's and just it with Hydra. Because the proc rate is being cut in half, there's a good chance on any given fight you'll lose 1 or 2 procs, and it will severely impact the usefulness of the trinket. Furthermore, if it's in-line DPS-wise with the other trinkets, there's no need to complicate our rotation with something that doesn't have any tangible benefit.

    On the meta gem: the Sinister gem is quite a bit above our normal Burning Primal Diamond, so it reasons that even if it's a typo and should be a 0.6192 multiplier, the Sinister Primal Diamond should still be ahead. If it's not a typo, then we'd obviously keep it - it would also mean we need to compute different haste breakpoints, as NG/Sinister would be active for most of the time, and a new haste breakpoint would take over as the dominant one. Though, this is assuming the multiplier isn't a typo, which it probably is.
    I would infact bet all my money on it that it's a typo, but if we take a look at destros and elemental shamans it'd have to be 3 typos in 1 post from GC, because even with a 3.xx coefficient we'd reach a incredible uptime on this proc, so I'm not quite sure if it's really a typo...

  17. #137
    I think we're best off just ignoring the meta for now. By the time it's actually obtainable, we've probably gotten clarification or possibly even a hotfix to the proc chance already

  18. #138
    Anyone come up with a normal mode Best in Slot list.

  19. #139
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talindra View Post
    Anyone come up with a normal mode Best in Slot list.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-quot-BiS-list

    I posted in there, it was literally 2 threads beneath this one.

  20. #140
    Pandaren Monk Stommped's Avatar
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    Sinister has been updated to the correct value; it's better than the .6192 we thought it was going to be.

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