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  1. #161
    does not seem like the BiS weapon drops in the raid according to the dungeon guide unless a trash drop or something

  2. #162
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalfears View Post
    does not seem like the BiS weapon drops in the raid according to the dungeon guide unless a trash drop or something
    Quote Originally Posted by aligx View Post
    Nadagast's just dropped for my guild off normal 25 man council of elders. but is still not listed in their loot table.
    About 3 posts above yours.

  3. #163
    What's your opinion on SotF with HotW buff with a full mastery build in comparison to other talent choices avaliable with haste/crit builds you currently have.

  4. #164
    Does SotF even make mastery stronger relative to haste and crit? Anyway, it should still be the weakest of the three, so that would probably be worse than haste or crit builds with any of the three talents(especially FoN, since it doesn't scale with mastery).

  5. #165
    I can't believe blizzard ruined the only thing I was really looking forward for this next tier. R.I.P crit trinket, you will be missed and always remembered for bringing in some joy during the late PTR tests...

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    I can't believe blizzard ruined the only thing I was really looking forward for this next tier. R.I.P crit trinket, you will be missed and always remembered for bringing in some joy during the late PTR tests...
    I have missed something here, What did Blizz do to this trinket to knock it off our BiS list?

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonsys View Post
    I have missed something here, What did Blizz do to this trinket to knock it off our BiS list?
    Nerf it to half the proc chance for moonkins only

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    Nerf it to half the proc chance for moonkins only
    RIP in peace.


    Crossiantlol - Balance Druid
    Stalv - Shadow Priest

  9. #169
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalv View Post
    RIP in peace.
    "Rest in peace in peace"?????


    Maybe you should sigquote yourself instead :P

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    "Rest in peace in peace"?????


    Maybe you should sigquote yourself instead :P
    Welcome to the internet.


    Crossiantlol - Balance Druid
    Stalv - Shadow Priest

  11. #171

  12. #172
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalv View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
    Welcome to the real world, where no one gives a damn about a streaming kid and even less his characters names. (Even less try to make a nonesense saying of them)

  13. #173
    Switching to Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne (Heroic) and changing all but 1 red gem to Reckless (int/haste) nets an extra 150 DPS (192259.16) due to it having 100 int more than the dagger, so it doesn't actually matter whether Nadagast's Exsanguinator is on any loot table or not.

  14. #174
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazerdollarz View Post
    Switching to Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne (Heroic) and changing all but 1 red gem to Reckless (int/haste) nets an extra 150 DPS (192259.16) due to it having 100 int more than the dagger, so it doesn't actually matter whether Nadagast's Exsanguinator is on any loot table or not.
    Could you explain the change more? I can see Torall's being higher (I got 192231.20), but I had to change a few more things than just a red gem. Once I switched in the red gem, I had to place an int/crit gem into Torall's and reforge spirit to crit. This left spirit 39 over the cap, and haste 184 over cap. This meant I had to change a yellow haste gem to crit, and a red int/crit gem to int/haste. Final outcome: 192231.20 DPS, 24 over haste BP, 39 over hit cap.

    Edit: with some more tweaking, I got it to 192367.77, 24 over haste BP and 11 under hit cap.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-03-06 at 06:28 PM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Could you explain the change more? I can see Torall's being higher (I got 192231.20), but I had to change a few more things than just a red gem. Once I switched in the red gem, I had to place an int/crit gem into Torall's and reforge spirit to crit. This left spirit 39 over the cap, and haste 184 over cap. This meant I had to change a yellow haste gem to crit, and a red int/crit gem to int/haste. Final outcome: 192231.20 DPS, 24 over haste BP, 39 over hit cap.
    Literally all I changed from the default profile in WC 130305 was the weapon to Torall (which I left unreforged) and 5 red gems to Reckless. This left me 2 rating over the haste BP (5 under GCD haste cap) and 39 rating above hit cap.
    Edit: Looks like it's actually 252 over hit cap , doing some more changes to see if I can lower that.
    Edit2: Reforging spirit to crit on Torall yields 193072.37 DPS, 39 rating above hit cap.
    Last edited by lazerdollarz; 2013-03-06 at 06:19 PM.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazerdollarz View Post
    Literally all I changed from the default profile in WC 130305 was the weapon to Torall (which I left unreforged) and 5 red gems to Reckless. This left me 2 rating over the haste BP (5 under GCD haste cap) and 39 rating above hit cap.
    Edit: Looks like it's actually 252 over hit cap , doing some more changes to see if I can lower that.
    Edit2: Reforging spirit to crit on Torall yields 193072.37 DPS, 39 rating above hit cap.
    Would you be able to upload your WrathCalcs somewhere? I've done what you said, to a T, but I only got 192244.75. Though, your way does only have 2 over the haste breakpoint, but 39 hit over cap. If you send me your spreadsheet, I should be able to find the difference.

    Edit: also, reforging Ra-den's Evolving Signet Spirit -> Crit instead of Torall's drops us to 9 under the hit cap, but I see a gain of 140 DPS. Still nothing near your 193k though.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-03-06 at 06:35 PM.

  17. #177
    I can't post links, apparently, so PM me your email address and I'll send it to you manually.

  18. #178
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazerdollarz View Post
    I can't post links, apparently, so PM me your email address and I'll send it to you manually.
    Alright, so what I could see: having Tailoring/Engineering enabled gave a surplus of 500 int in your profile - I had mine set to Alchemy/Enchanting. If I change it back to Alchemy/Enchanting the int goes away and so does the DPS - just that one change makes it go down to 191030.50. Also, you didn't have the 320 crit added to the manual addition line for the prismatic socket in any ToT weapon. Adding that in, and removing the reforge on Torall's to reforge Ra-den's Evolving Signet makes our WrathCalcs the same at 192381.32 DPS.

    I should put a caveat in the OP to make sure professions are always Engineering/Tailoring, just for comparison purposes. It seems they are the best professions to go at the moment.

    Anyway, besides all that, you made a good point and Torall's looks like the best option with some tweaking.

  19. #179
    Ah, it says in the OP to use Eng/Tailoring! Regardless, my initial intention to alleviate the problem of whether or not the dagger actually exists in Heroic form was successful, and a DPS improvement was made.

  20. #180
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazerdollarz View Post
    Ah, it says in the OP to use Eng/Tailoring! Regardless, my initial intention to alleviate the problem of whether or not the dagger actually exists in Heroic form was successful, and a DPS improvement was made.
    I know, I just edited that in. I'll change the stuff we talked about now, and set all the stats to Engineering/Tailoring.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 01:14 AM ----------

    So after a good deal of thought, and because of three specific points, tomorrow morning I'm going to be switching the BiS list over to a full crit gem/reforge. This is what worked for us in 5.0/5.1 and saw some very good numbers even though the haste breakpoint looked appeasing, so I feel this should still be apparent for 5.2. I do want to touch on two points though:

    - Originally, the haste breakpoint was emphasised by us using UVLS, as it strengthened our dots significantly. This meant our dots would get an additional tick in, and thus each dot was worth more the moment you pressed it. Since this BiS list no longer includes UVLS, this point is moot.

    - The Sinister Primal Diamond drops the importance of the haste breakpoint as we accrue more haste. Even in a crit build it looks to be at around 41% uptime, meaning 41% of the time the haste breakpoint is worthless (because it doesn't exist while the Sinister proc is active). WrathCalcs did show a noticeable drop in the value of the breakpoint, and this lead me to my final point.

    - For single-target, the two builds are virtually the same. Only a 0.37% DPS difference is between the two, and this is much too small of a gap for us to be certain. If there were a 5% or more difference, then I would advocate one over the other. Thus, it's really up to personal preference for single-target. For multiple target fights, crit should pull ahead on a per point basis because of the synergy with SS procs. Nothing really changed between 5.1 and 5.2, so I've decided to switch over to crit for the time being.

    Also, if it turns out that there's better Thunderforged pieces than currently displayed on Wowhead and Wowdb, then I'll go through and assess whether or not some pieces need to be changed. As you can see from the above couple of posts, everyone here can contribute and I'm obviously not infallible, so please come and post your ideas and tweaks.

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