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  1. #1
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    [Balance] T15H BiS List

    This is the current BiS list for boomkins in T15H gear. Numbers and gearset have been evaluated using WrathCalcs (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t114017-balance_wrathcalcs/), and other spreadsheets/simulations may vary. This BiS list was last updated on 24/05/13.

    *note*: this list is valid as of 5.3 release.

    Oh look pretty colours (trinket comparison): http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20993459

    Name Gem Gem Enchant Reforge
    Head Cover of the Haunted Forest Sinister Primal Diamond Quick Sun's Radiance --- Spirit -> Crit
    Neck Passionfire Choker Smooth Sun's Radiance --- --- Spirit -> Haste
    Shoulders Shoulderwraps of the Haunted Forest Reckless Vermilion Onyx Smooth Sun's Radiance Greater Crane Wing Inscription ---
    Back Jadefire Drape Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Cloak - Superior Intellect ---
    Chest Robes of Contagious Time Potent Vermilion Onyx Potent Vermilion Onyx x2 Enchant Chest - Glorious Stats Mastery -> Crit
    Bracers Infinitely Conducting Bracers --- --- Enchant Bracer - Super Intellect Spirit -> Haste
    Gloves Gloves of the Haunted Forest Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste Mastery -> Haste
    Belt Worldbender Waistband Piercing Wild Jade Piercing Wild Jade Smooth Sun's Radiance Spirit -> Haste
    Pants Leggings of the Haunted Forest Smooth Sun's Radiance Piercing Wild Jade Greater Cerulean Spellthread ---
    Boots Roots of Pain Smooth Sun's Radiance Piercing Wild Jade Enchant Boots - Pandaren's Step Mastery -> Haste
    Ring Ra-den's Evolving Signet Piercing Wild Jade --- --- Spirit -> Crit
    Ring Ro'shak's Remembrance Piercing Wild Jade --- --- Mastery -> Haste
    Trinket Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance --- --- --- ---
    Trinket Wushoolay's Final Choice --- --- --- Hit -> Haste
    Main-Hand Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne Potent Vermilion Onyx Smooth Sun's Radiance Enchant Weapon - Jade Spirit Spirit -> Crit
    Off-Hand Lei Shen's Orb of Command Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Off-Hand - Major Intellect ---

    OVERALL STATS: 20780 Int, 32162 Spell power, 10350 Haste, 16635 Crit, 3327 Mastery, 5081 Hit

    DPS: 242281.94

    CAPS: 19 under hit cap, 54 over GCD cap

    Just a few tid-bits:

    • 2x Crit is slightly above Int, meaning all red sockets should have int/crit gems and all yellow gems should have pure crit/haste gems. Blue sockets will still always have crit/spr or crit/hit. Exp/crit gems would *technically* be better for red sockets, but we really have too much spirit to contend with at this point in the expansion. Next tier we may be going back to mostly int gems due to SS proc waste/haste GCD cap.
    • Blizzard is reinstating upgrades in 5.3. This BiS list is evaluated with 2/2 upgrades in mind.
    • When comparing items, please use Engineering/Tailoring for comparative purposes. Also set your race to Worgen and SS proc waste to 0.2.
    • 5.3 brings about big changes to FoN, making it the best single-target talent. Incarnation will be better for multi-target fights mostly due to FoN being dumb when switching targets and not scaling with multi-target fights. Currently, we don't know what fights call for what talent, but http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20920799 and below gives a little more insight on the choices.

    Again, if anyone would like to contribute to this list, please post constructively and back up your post with maths! Idly arguing a point without proving yourself wont get you anywhere. Remember to use WrathCalcs, upgrade your gear and use Force of Nature/Heart of the Wild for comparison purposes.

    --------------------------------------

    Anyway, feel free to comment on this as well. I'm always up for testing out anything new you guys come up with!

    Also, I must have a few transcription errors somewhere here - feel free to point them out, so others don't get confused.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-05-26 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Stommped's Avatar
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    Don't forget that you can use the Eye of the Black Prince in any weapon. So need to throw in another Smooth gem there. Won't change anything though. Good work, again!

  3. #3
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Don't forget that you can use the Eye of the Black Prince in any weapon. So need to throw in another Smooth gem there. Won't change anything though. Good work, again!
    Good catch, I'll chuck that in!

  4. #4
    I'm going to assume the trinkets are still being worked on.

    EDIT: just read the comment saying it isn't.

  5. #5
    Why not Nadagast's Exsanguinator ? Has 920 secondary stats instead of 900 and a yellow socket for more crit.

  6. #6
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Why not Nadagast's Exsanguinator ? Has 920 secondary stats instead of 900 and a yellow socket for more crit.
    Chucking in that dagger looks like ~250 DPS increase. I must've skipped over it and just went for the other dagger when I saw it. Oddly enough, those are the only two one-handed weapons in 5.2 with base crit on them, that I could find.

    Updating OP with the dagger change.

    Edit: also note that it's not possible to go beneath the hit cap with current gear and 2/2 upgrades - there's just too much hit/spirit on gear now. This makes the Wushoolay trinket and any other piece with blue sockets or base spirit/hit much less desirable. Keep that in mind.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-02-16 at 04:52 AM.

  7. #7
    I like this bunches, amazing work! I have one quick question! Are the Heroic Thunderforged versions for the items that do not specifically drop off of Ra-den in WrathCalcs or are those yet to be implemented? I've only given a brief look at the full dungeon journal loot tables to play around with some items, but I believe some of them had a bit more preferable itemization than Ra-den pieces. Since tier cannot be Thunderforged, the int/crit ring off of Jin'rokh is the only notable find I've seen so far that may apply here. Haven't found any other Heroic Thunderforged versions released yet other than Ra-den's, but do you think there's a likelihood they'll change up this list a little? I realize with Thunderforged drops comes RNG, but BiS is BiS!
    Last edited by Baba; 2013-02-16 at 06:53 AM.

  8. #8
    Just pointing out you can't equipped both of those rings at the same time since they both say "Unique-Equipped: Curios of the Golden Lotus (1)"

  9. #9
    That's a leftover from their template rings. They might still end up being mutually exclusive, but we can't tell from this.

    Trinktes are going to be annoying... Wushoolay and Che-Ye appear to be best with the amount of crit we should expect to have, but Lei-Shen might throw a curveball there. On the other hand, it's probably pretty hard to use and very easy to miss due to only being 4 seconds, so it might not be the best choice even if it is mathematically superior.
    Last edited by huth; 2013-02-16 at 06:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's a leftover from their template rings. They might still end up being mutually exclusive, but we can't tell from this.

    Trinktes are going to be annoying... Wushoolay and Che-Ye appear to be best with the amount of crit we should expect to have, but Lei-Shen might throw a curveball there. On the other hand, it's probably pretty hard to use and very easy to miss due to only being 4 seconds, so it might not be the best choice even if it is mathematically superior.
    I completely disagree. Anyone can make an enormous weak-aura or power-aura in the middle of their screen, and when it pops up they just moonfire/sunfire. Very easy to use and very very strong.

  11. #11
    As was mentioned earlier, the only worry I have with Wushoolay is all of that excessive hit. With Unerring Vision, there's nearly always going to be something to put at least 2 dots on to game the trinket, allowing you just start spitting out Starsurges.

  12. #12
    So I guess trinkets are placeholders?

  13. #13
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kafur View Post
    Just pointing out you can't equipped both of those rings at the same time since they both say "Unique-Equipped: Curios of the Golden Lotus (1)"
    I'll swap them out if their tooltips don't change within the week. Looks like Ra-den's Evolving Signet has ~31 extra secondary stats (129 haste vs. 100 hit, 60 crit) when fully upgraded, so in that case we'd swap out Ra-den's Summoning Band for Roshak's Remembrance - comes out a good 200 DPS above the next best option (Durumu's Captive Eyeball). It also frees up a good amount of hit and puts us slightly under cap (I'll go about fiddling with reforging if I have to switch out these rings).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    So I guess trinkets are placeholders?
    Yes. I think I stated that in the fourth sentence.

    Edit: I suppose I'll just make it blindingly obvious they're placeholders.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-02-16 at 07:58 AM.

  14. #14
    I'm going to go ahead and say that Courageous Primal Diamond would be the ideal meta gem choice.

    Yes I know it's a healer meta gem, but the primary stats looks a lot more appealing than Sinister Primal Diamond.

    Testing on PTR, I already crit like crazy. At the same time we get our mini Blood Lust, which is pretty nifty, but it's only 10 sec.

    Edit: Got more info.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 03:14 AM ----------

    Martin Fury for our trinket? This is too stronk!!!1111!!!one!

  15. #15
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and say that Courageous Primal Diamond would be the ideal meta gem choice.

    Yes I know it's a healer meta gem, but the primary stats looks a lot more appealing than Sinister Primal Diamond.

    Testing on PTR, I already crit like crazy. At the same time we get our mini Blood Lust, which is pretty nifty, but it's only 10 sec.

    Edit: Got more info.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 03:14 AM ----------

    Martin Fury for our trinket? This is too stronk!!!1111!!!one!
    I'll have to ask Tec whether or not the legendary meta's have been modelled correctly in WrathCalcs, as it shows a 4k DPS loss to switch from Burning to Sinister. I doubt very much Courageous will come ahead, as 2x crit > Int, so most of the benefit of the int is already gone, and the other part of the Courageous meta is worthless.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-02-16 at 08:20 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    2x crit > Int
    I think I'm missing something here.
    Courageous has 324 INT. Sinister has 324 CRIT. Since it's the same in number, wouldn't courageous be better?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I'll have to ask Tec whether or not the legendary meta's have been modelled correctly in WrathCalcs, as it shows a 4k DPS loss to switch from Burning to Sinister. I doubt very much Courageous will come ahead, as 2x crit > Int, so most of the benefit of the int is already gone, and the other part of the Courageous meta is worthless.
    Just confirming here too for visibility, but the details on the Sinister gem (i.e. proc rate/ICD) hadn't been posted by GC when I put the latest version live. Hamlet is looking at the procs this weekend I think as they're a bit more adventurous than usual. There is no way that the healer one is better than that, I'm not getting that line of thinking?

    Trinkets aren't modelled yet, as they're in the same boat for the most part (i.e. Hamlet needs to do something a bit more in-depth to handle their behaviour than the usual way we just average out the procs/etc). For now, I'd just use the T14 BiS trinkets.

    The other thing I'd like to point out is that you shouldn't be upgrading, as it's being disabled with the incoming patch and they've not 100% confirmed if it'll be re-enabled with 5.3.

  18. #18
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    I think I'm missing something here.
    Courageous has 324 INT. Sinister has 324 CRIT. Since it's the same in number, wouldn't courageous be better?
    You're correct, if we were to say that 2x crit = int, in which we're undervaluing crit, courageous really has 162 int on top of the Sinister meta gem. However, the Sinister meta gem has the 30% haste with a 10 second uptime and 0.84 realPPM, which averages out to 4.2% additional haste (~1787 haste rating). With this in mind, and that the 30% haste will scale with other things and be better than its average approximation, it's looking like the Sinister meta gem will be better than Courageous or our normal Burning.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 12:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    The other thing I'd like to point out is that you shouldn't be upgrading, as it's being disabled with the incoming patch and they've not 100% confirmed if it'll be re-enabled with 5.3.
    I forgot about that. I'll drop it out for the moment.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    I think I'm missing something here.
    Courageous has 324 INT. Sinister has 324 CRIT. Since it's the same in number, wouldn't courageous be better?
    Yeah, you are missing the proc.

  20. #20
    The Patient
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    Nice work, was just wondering if you could also make a BiS list exclusing Ra'den. He seems to have a loot table of around 40 items, which everyone in your guild will want. I'd say it's pretty much impossible except for a couple of people to get 5-6 items from Ra'den you need.

    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen is definitely going to be BiS with the latest news on Snapshot crit on Dots.

    Aditionally going 10289 haste might be better than going full-crit. It will give you the extra dot tick without 4pcT14, increase uptime on the legendary meta and be better in combination with the Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen (aside the usual benefits of haste).
    Last edited by Miraclous; 2013-02-16 at 11:04 AM.

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