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  1. #321
    This is for single target calcs correct?

  2. #322
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zavqk View Post
    This is for single target calcs correct?
    Single-target through WrathCalcs, but I've been using 1 crit = 1.5 haste/spirit to evaluate multi-target fights. This list covers both.

  3. #323
    thoughts/advice on if you know ur guild is never gonna get to be able to kill Ra-den? obviously makes a lot of the BiS items impossible to get and completely changes what you should go for,

    love the lists btw, appreciate it

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Statica View Post
    thoughts/advice on if you know ur guild is never gonna get to be able to kill Ra-den? obviously makes a lot of the BiS items impossible to get and completely changes what you should go for,

    love the lists btw, appreciate it
    Some of the pieces that are raden can be easily switched for pieces with similar or better stats.

    For example, boots with the ones from durumu, chest can be the one from tortos as thunderforged, or the heroic t15 resto chest as its better stated for moon chicken that the chicken chest. rings, there's a ton of choices, same with cloaks. Belt with the one from twin Consorts.
    Last edited by Liax; 2013-04-10 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I get the feeling they'll add something cool to it eventually, but maybe not since the Sinister Primal Diamond is pretty cool itself. I could be wrong. The sheer stats (3 stats?!??) will make it BiS without a doubt. Also removes a nice chunk of spirit!
    I was wondering about the spirit cloak for a few seconds, but i don't see how one could make any reasonable shot at the cap with that...

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I was wondering about the spirit cloak for a few seconds, but i don't see how one could make any reasonable shot at the cap with that...
    one has crit the other doesn't, becomes obvious what we'd use.

  7. #327
    Name Gem Gem Enchant Reforge
    Head Cover of the Haunted Forest Sinister Primal Diamond Smooth Sun's Radiance --- Spirit -> Crit
    Neck Passionfire Choker (TF) Smooth Sun's Radiance --- --- Spirit -> Haste
    Shoulders Shoulderwraps of the Haunted Forest Reckless Vermilion Onyx Quick Sun's Radiance Greater Crane Wing Inscription Haste -> Spirit
    Back Deadly Glare Cape Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Cloak - Superior Intellect Haste -> Spirit
    Chest Robes of Contagious Time Reckless Vermilion Onyx Reckless Vermilion Onyx x2 Enchant Chest - Glorious Stats Mastery -> Crit
    Bracers Infinitely Conducting Bracers --- --- Enchant Bracer - Super Intellect Spirit -> Haste
    Gloves Gloves of the Haunted Forest Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste Mastery -> Haste
    Belt Worldbender Waistband Piercing Wild Jade Piercing Wild Jade Smooth Sun's Radiance Spirit -> Haste
    Pants Leggings of the Haunted Forest Smooth Sun's Radiance Piercing Wild Jade Greater Cerulean Spellthread ---
    Boots Roots of Pain Smooth Sun's Radiance Piercing Wild Jade Enchant Boots - Pandaren's Step Mastery -> Haste
    Ring Ra-den's Evolving Signet Piercing Wild Jade --- --- Spirit -> Crit
    Ring Durumu's Captive Eyeball (TF) Potent Vermilion Onyx --- --- Crit-> Haste
    Trinket Breath of the Hydra(TF) --- --- --- ---
    Trinket Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen (TF) --- --- --- ---
    Main-Hand Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne (TF) Potent Vermilion Onyx Smooth Sun's Radiance Enchant Weapon - Jade Spirit Spirit -> Crit
    Off-Hand Lei Shen's Orb of Command (TF) Crafty Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Off-Hand - Major Intellect ---

    OVERALL STATS: 20469 Int, 31114 Spell power, 10308 Haste, 12830 Crit, 1876 Mastery, 5110 Hit

    DPS: 207653.22

    CAPS: 10 over hit cap
    Last edited by Meldon; 2013-04-12 at 01:05 AM.

  8. #328
    the extra haste becomes useless with the legendary meta i believe that's why were not going for the 10k+ haste correct me if i am wrong someone tho

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by primalfears View Post
    the extra haste becomes useless with the legendary meta i believe that's why were not going for the 10k+ haste correct me if i am wrong someone tho
    Asked on EJ Wrathcalcs forums, they reckon there is a point where our crit will lead us to waste too many SS procs and thus haste will be the goto, but I guess we need math on it

  10. #330
    Crit: more crit = more wasted overwriting SS procs
    Haste: it's easy to go under haste GCD cap with teh legendary gem (it's 30% increased cast speed every 30sec for10sec !) and I'm not taking into account Heroism
    Mastery: it increase our damage, it does not increase SS procs overwriting, it does not devalue our legendary gem or heroism, it's uptime increases with increase in ilvl because we reach eclipses really fast.


    Guess which stats we should aim to reforge for real raid encounters where we don't want to waste too many SS.
    I think 30% crit is enough to proc many SS and exend our dots long enough to reach another eclipse (easy to reach in 522 ilvl)
    Haste is not a problem once we have the legendary gem 30% haste for 10 sec every 30 sec

    Mastery FTW!

  11. #331
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephyron View Post
    -- snip --
    Yes, I know WrathCalcs is reporting that 1 haste > 1 crit since it is only modelling single-target at the moment, and that the 10289 breakpoint is worth the crit sacrifice. I've tried to extend this list beyond just single-target fights (since most of ToT is multi-target), and I've instead taken 1.5 crit = 1 haste, as we saw with the limited functionality of multi-target WrathCalcs. And as an above poster said, the gain of the breakpoint is in fact terribly small (~200 DPS), so most of the DPS "gain" is from haste itself, even though this is only apparent for a fight like Jin'rokh.

    I've also been following the discussion on EJ, but as of yet there is no hard number where we should stop stacking crit and instead dump it into haste/mastery. Since there's no actual value I can base arguments from, I can't actually do anything with the gear. Instead, I'm keeping it the way it is, aimed toward multi-target fights with the current numbers we know.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephyron View Post
    Crit: more crit = more wasted overwriting SS procs
    Haste: it's easy to go under haste GCD cap with teh legendary gem (it's 30% increased cast speed every 30sec for10sec !) and I'm not taking into account Heroism
    Mastery: it increase our damage, it does not increase SS procs overwriting, it does not devalue our legendary gem or heroism, it's uptime increases with increase in ilvl because we reach eclipses really fast.


    Guess which stats we should aim to reforge for real raid encounters where we don't want to waste too many SS.
    I think 30% crit is enough to proc many SS and exend our dots long enough to reach another eclipse (easy to reach in 522 ilvl)
    Haste is not a problem once we have the legendary gem 30% haste for 10 sec every 30 sec

    Mastery FTW!
    My original question posted on EJ was: "Would this mean we would theoretically swap to int/crit gems as oppose to straight crit? or would we move to haste?"
    Which in my mind would increase overall dps more than straight haste due to the meta pushing us to GCD cap
    HOWEVER
    I am rather well known for being an idiot so please if I am wrong correct me

  13. #333
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayaar View Post
    My original question posted on EJ was: "Would this mean we would theoretically swap to int/crit gems as oppose to straight crit? or would we move to haste?"
    Which in my mind would increase overall dps more than straight haste due to the meta pushing us to GCD cap
    HOWEVER
    I am rather well known for being an idiot so please if I am wrong correct me
    You'd be correct there, as the value of haste drops significantly after the GCD cap (10296 iirc?). If we're to cap crit at a certain value, then the next best option will be dumping excess crit into int, and then into haste or mastery, depending on which is better when accounting for the Sinister meta gem. WrathCalcs should be pretty accurate there, in regards to haste pre- and post-GCD cap.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    You'd be correct there, as the value of haste drops significantly after the GCD cap (10296 iirc?). If we're to cap crit at a certain value, then the next best option will be dumping excess crit into int, and then into haste or mastery, depending on which is better when accounting for the Sinister meta gem. WrathCalcs should be pretty accurate there, in regards to haste pre- and post-GCD cap.
    So once we are in full bis t15hc+TF with potential upgrades would we be wise to consider moving to potent gems as we should be capable of reaching that haste cap whilst maintaining a high enough level of crit

  15. #335
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayaar View Post
    So once we are in full bis t15hc+TF with potential upgrades would we be wise to consider moving to potent gems as we should be capable of reaching that haste cap whilst maintaining a high enough level of crit
    Possibly, but I'm not one to advocate hitting the haste GCD anymore. There's basically two scenarios I can see happening by the end of this tier/early next tier:

    1. We don't hit a crit cap. I think this is more likely for this tier, but I don't have any evidence to back that up, other than crit has been our best stat for a while now. In this scenario, we continue on as planned and stack crit until forever.
    2. We make an imaginary crit cap, supported by maths. For this scenario, any excess crit would be turned into int. Haste and Mastery would remain unchanged.

    I don't think it'd be advantageous to maintain hit/haste/crit caps simultaneously, and then dump into int. I don't have any maths on hand to back up my claims though, so it's just speculation on my part.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-04-12 at 02:28 AM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Possibly, but I'm not one to advocate hitting the haste GCD anymore. There's basically two scenarios I can see happening by the end of this tier/early next tier:

    1. We don't hit a crit cap. I think this is more likely for this tier, but I don't have any evidence to back that up, other than crit has been our best stat for a while now. In this scenario, we continue on as planned and stack crit until forever.
    2. We make an imaginary crit cap, supported by maths. For this scenario, any excess crit would be turned into int. Haste and Mastery would remain unchanged. There would be no need to change haste/mastery, as they're still worth the same amount as they were before, so we just regem into int.

    I don't think it'd be advantageous to maintain hit/haste/crit caps simultaneously, and then dump into int. I don't have any maths on hand to back up my claims though, so it's just speculation on my part.
    Subjective speculation here also, this imaginary crit cap I would assume it would be when you are loosing a specific number of SS procs per cycle / per minute / per fight in order for there to be a "requirement" for us to move to a different gemming strategy. I was just thinking about it the other night during a period of insomnia and thought I would ask for some more intellectual input from the community.

  17. #337
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayaar View Post
    Subjective speculation here also, this imaginary crit cap I would assume it would be when you are loosing a specific number of SS procs per cycle / per minute / per fight in order for there to be a "requirement" for us to move to a different gemming strategy. I was just thinking about it the other night during a period of insomnia and thought I would ask for some more intellectual input from the community.
    Yeah, it's a good question to ponder though. Also, I'll add a third option into the scenarios:

    3. We make an imaginary crit cap, supported by maths. For this scenario, any excess crit would be turned into haste until the GCD cap, and from then on into int. 2 haste should be greater than 1 int until the breakpoint, so it'd make sense. Unfortunately, juggling three caps at once will be problematic.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Yeah, it's a good question to ponder though. Also, I'll add a third option into the scenarios:

    3. We make an imaginary crit cap, supported by maths. For this scenario, any excess crit would be turned into haste until the GCD cap, and from then on into int. 2 haste should be greater than 1 int until the breakpoint, so it'd make sense. Unfortunately, juggling three caps at once will be problematic.
    Plausible of course given the tools at our disposal? I for one would like to see the impact of these potential "caps" if we were capable of putting together some math, and by "we" I mean "you" :P - tec and hamlet as well I guess

    I would of course give any input possible to aid matters.
    Last edited by Drayaar; 2013-04-12 at 02:43 AM.

  19. #339
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayaar View Post
    Plausible of course given the tools at our disposal? I for one would like to see the impact of these potential "caps" if we were capable of putting together some math, and by "we" I mean "you" :P - tec and hamlet as well I guess

    I would of course give any input possible to aid matters.
    Me too! As Hamlet said in the EJ thread (I'm sure you're following), it'd be more like a diminishing return on crit, rather than a hard cap. Stacking haste until the GCD cap would become more important as our crit goes up, and then once we hit the cap we'd more than likely continue to put more into crit, bearing in mind each point would have the caveat of increasing missed SS procs.

    I posted a little more indepth on EJ.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Me too! As Hamlet said in the EJ thread (I'm sure you're following), it'd be more like a diminishing return on crit, rather than a hard cap. Stacking haste until the GCD cap would become more important as our crit goes up, and then once we hit the cap we'd more than likely continue to put more into crit, bearing in mind each point would have the caveat of increasing missed SS procs.

    I posted a little more indepth on EJ.
    Yeah I am following on EJ aswell, just thought id bring the conversation here as well for folks who do not frequent the EJ forums.

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