Verdict on Guild Wars 2's innovations

[nevermore]

I can only assume you are playing the game on the most rudimentary, cursory level imaginable.

Look at Ele traits.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List...ntalist_traits

There are a total of 15 minor and 60 major traits, however you can only pick 14 max.
This is true of all professions.

And which one of those 75 traits would you say define your playstyle to such an extent that it makes your character feel different to, let's say, the same profession but with different traits?

Because all I see (and this goes for every prof) is reduced cooldowns, increased damage, and bit of utility here and there. Marginal.

Now I know this is a case of YMMV, but one would expect trait choices to actually push your character into a certain direction to a significant degree, and after that you'd compliment it with gear and weapon choices -- like in pretty much every other successful MMORPG. However, it's not the case in GW2.

Let me present a modified version of the Warrior "Sonic Boon" build, which is the reason why everyone goes ape for Berserk warriors in LFG.
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#...amGG0x0VsVaoRb

It provides one of the best trait-gear synergies in the game, and that being said, it's still kinda meh. Because if you take away all those traits, what do you lose?
Damage (from traits and from less might stacks), cooldown reduction, and some bleed/vulnerability. And shout healing, which is so little you barely notice it.
Okay, great. Of course I would miss those things, but it sure as hell doesn't re-define my character.

But I guess I just want more profound results from a talent system in an mmo.

[Fencers]

Because all I see (and this goes for every prof) is reduced cooldowns, increased damage, and bit of utility here and there.

The majority of traits follow the same pattern for all classes.

[Doozerjun]

Well different trait configurations do make a big difference in how you play.

This really comes to light when you see a good player show you how it's done. I think part of the issue is that the game is very lenient/forgiving on bad play, at least in pve.

[barackopala]

Then we're probably playing a different game.
The gear you have and the abilities/weapons you use account for pretty much everything. Traits give you some extra stats, minor buffs and a couple of quality of life improvements.
You can pretend they make any difference but they really don't.

Try grenade engineer with 0 traits into power/precision, please do so, it will take you ages to kill something, some builds rely on traits more than others, seems like you havent tested most profs.

[Meledelion]

Isn't sonic boon 10/20/0/30/10, sonic boon is pretty unforgiving stat wise, it's very well optimised for its role so I wouldn't tinker with it unless you're ready to change your entire gearing as well.

It looks to me like that you want taits to give skills, since that's the only difference with "that other mmo" you mentioned. Over there it's all the same, X skill does more dmg, you scale better with stat X,... There's not much variation possible with that tbh.

[Karizee]

And which one of those 75 traits would you say define your playstyle to such an extent that it makes your character feel different to, let's say, the same profession but with different traits?

No single trait - it's the synergy of traits (coupled with weapon choice) that make my ele support, bunker or offensive damage focused.

There are books being written on how to play an Elementalist. You should stop while you're ahead, you're making yourself look sillier with every post.

[LilSaihah]

This whole thing might make sense if traits were in a vacuum, but they're not. Trait builds inform weapon choices and utility choices, or the other way around. I dunno about anyone else, but when I make my trait builds, I usually choose a role, weapon set or school of utilities to focus around, rather than putting arbitrary numbers into arbitrary places.

I also find it kind of funny that Voldemort's talent system was brought up when it's about as spotty as GW2's trait system. I'd just pick random buttons that happened to be statistical bonuses over there, too.

[Lane]

Now I have to just level normally... which is not very entertaining for the 4th time.

This is why I need to start my own leveling service. :P Only thing is it wouldn't be very fast, but I love map completion. It's my favorite (if almost entirely unproductive) way to spend my time in GW2. Lately I've been so caught up in trying to get gold I realized I spend the bulk of my play time doing things I don't like just because it's more lucrative. :\

[Fencers]

Well different trait configurations do make a big difference in how you play.

Really think this is a falsity.

I have said before; but gear and traits seem to not matter to any serious degree in Guild Wars 2.

For example, I bought 3 pieces of t1 cultural armor as a Norn first week of release. From level 30 or whatever, I didn't replace those pieces at all till weeks after being 80. There was no overt difference in gear. I was clearing expo modes at 80 with pieces of green gear I got in Queensdale. My greatsword was like a level 25ish weapon till I bought the Ebonhawk t1 sword. Which I didn't change for weeks and weeks.

My sister only ever bought her first book. No real difference in anything.

We duo'd expo AC in beta with level 20 crafted gear. Twice. As different classes each time.

Do traits and gear have an effect? Sure. Fairly certain, they don't really have any dramatic effect though.

The single most powerful traits in the game are the strafe keys.

[Meledelion]

You really don't run any spreadsheets do you fencers? The moment you do you realise how well certain traits scale which aren't totally predicted at first glance, while others are quite lackluster upon closer inspection.

Running dungeons ofc is doable naked, but you should notice this quite a bit if you have an "optimal" spec vs a non optimal spec.
If you look at the war discussion me and I don't know who had a little while ago regarding gs vs axe, it showed quite clearly that GS does a lot more dmg allthough axe "feels" like it's doing competitive dps it really isn't (gs does nearly double if I recall correctly).

I find it odd that you don't notice a big difference since the key points of dps are weapon strength and power. If you look at the upgrade from greens to exos at lvl 80 that alone is noticable, lvl 25gear as a lvl 80 should definatly give you a lot higher numbers.

Ofcourse if you're running a non dps build you won't notice the stat difference as much since staying alive is easy and healing is hardly ever needed...

[Fencers]

You really don't run any spreadsheets do you fencers? The moment you do you realise how well certain traits scale which aren't totally predicted at first glance, while others are quite lackluster upon closer inspection.

No, I don't run any numbers for this game.

Though it wouldn't matter. One might indeed deal 30% more damage with Y trait over X. Yet in actual play nothing seems to matter a damn to success/failure in the game other than movement.

Running dungeons ofc is doable naked, but you should notice this quite a bit if you have an "optimal" spec vs a non optimal spec.

I've used so called "optimal" specs in exotic gear. Also ran the same dungeons/fractals with like yellow MF gear.

No appreciable difference. And yes, I play melee almost exclusively.

The ONLY times I noticed any difference in gear were the undead dog/healing worms boss in Arah and the robot guy in COE.

[Meledelion]

Not mattering and not being noticable are two different things. If you don't notice 30% more dmg I don't know what you will notice

[Fencers]

Well, it doesn't matter and it's not particularly noticeable. XD

Everything has so much fucking HP yet there is rarely any DPS check that it is almost academic to deal 640 vs. 580.

[Meledelion]

30% of 580 is 754 or if you put it in "time to kill" if it normally takes 260sec to kill something it should now take 182sec again quite noticable imo.
I do agree that there's quite a lack of DPS-checks though.

[Fencers]

30% of 580 is 754 or if you put it in "time to kill" if it normally takes 260sec to kill something it should now take 182sec again quite noticable imo.
I do agree that there's quite a lack of DPS-checks though.

I was just pulling out random numbers.

The only fights where it "mattered" was like in the dog/worm/werewolf guy in Arah. Because the grubs are like a soft enrage. And even then it was like a redux off twin trees in RA or Oracle/Warmaster in Rift. No real "omg how to figure outz".

None of this is to say GW2 is in the wrong for de-emphasizing traits/gear. Such that you don't need to spec 10/30/30 or whatever to do blahblah encounter.

Though it is pretty much a falsity to suggest that traits are in practice a significant component how a character plays. Utility and weapon skills effect play to a much greater degree.

Getting extra bleeds off a Rifle is a nice perk. But using a longbow in place of a rifle is a far more impacting choice.

[Meledelion]

Yes ofcourse weapon choice impacts playstyle more than traits, but picking the right traits in return optimises those weapons.
I think we can agree on the fact that for playstyle traits don't matter(much) but for dps they do?

[Deadite]

No appreciable difference. And yes, I play melee almost exclusively.

I find that so wacky. I have only been playing for a short time but on my level 46 Warrior i am amazed how much more powerful i become with traits and better gear. Just adding some signets and getting the Deep Strike trait you turn into a monster. I jumped to 80% odd crit with that. I found that to be extremely noticeable.

[Fencers]

Yes ofcourse weapon choice impacts playstyle more than traits, but picking the right traits in return optimises those weapons.

Yea, sure.

Just like I said: "Do traits and gear have an effect? Sure. Fairly certain, they don't really have any dramatic effect though."

Traits are more like perks. Nice little bonuses.

[LilSaihah]

Dunno if I'd call them little, but they're definitely not one of the major things around which you decide to build your character. The only trait that I can immediately think of around which you'd make weapon/utility decisions would be Altruistic Healer.

[nevermore]

I think we can agree on the fact that for playstyle traits don't matter(much) but for dps they do?

Traits are more like perks. Nice little bonuses.

Which is pretty much what I was trying to point out. And that's why I said they are very lacklustre in their current implementation.
As opposed to other games where simply choosing your main spec direction profoundly defines your character.