i feel like GW2 implemented everything that was lacking in games like WoW, and improved gameplay by a crap load. I personally love WoW, have been playing it for years, but I recently started playing GW2 and can honestly say that the game play, leveling, questing & just the game in general is a LOT more intriguing and fun. Take this opinion from someone who has been playing both for quite some time.
I would argue exactly what you did, except that's what makes the lack of roles in these encounters more limiting. It basically amounts to a gameplay 'whatever'. Also, jack of all trades, master of none comes to mind as to why the potential enjoyment doesn't have such a high ceiling.
Learning your ABC's might be difficult when you're a toddler. When you're an adult it isn't supposed to be hard anymore. It's supposed to be trivial. Completely different things are supposed to challenge you -- and that's fine so long as those new challenges exist (and this is where some games fall short -- they run out of things to challenge players). But if nothing ever becomes trivial (because of downleveling), then there's a risk that a player doesn't feel like their "epic journey" has taken place.
Personally, I haven't found the support abilities of the classes in GW2 to be substantial enough, certainly not for most individuals to be able to turn the tide of any given encounter as, say, a hybrid in WoW could by off-tanking or off-healing. Abilities being limited by weapon doesn't help the issue either, unless you plan ahead of time going into an encounter to substitute defensive weapon swaps and slot skills since you're unable to change either once you're locked into combat.
It does seem like -- and this is just based off of observations during dragon DEs -- the intent was everyone working together to support each other, which in this day and age of MMOs is a lot to ask when people are used to LFG speed runs with randomized parties of people only focused on their 'role'. I know when I did AC story my bf thanked me for the Healing Seeds (benefit of being a Sylvari warrior) because it was literally the only healing anyone in the party was getting. So, I can see why Meledelion commented about going in with a dedicated party. :P
Regardless, I still miss the big number heals. I loved doing drive-by heals in other games or just making sure the heavy hitters never died. Can't really do that in GW2, sadly.
Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy
Obviously the same approach won't work, but I honestly wouldn't mind if they added some new abilities where you could refine your character into more a specific role. I'm not sure that it would impact their overall design at all, since it would still have to be available to a group made up of 5 Elly glass cannons jumping around like grasshoppers, but yeah.
---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 02:35 PM ----------
So there absolutely are professions who are superior in doing things. The problem, I think, is: make that actions important would mean that you need that specific profession for a dungoen run, which would go against Anets design-decisions. You should depend only on yourself, not specific other professions. That's also why there is no dedicated healer. You should always be your best healer, otherwise lfg would look like in GW1 where Monks were THE profession which you have to take along... and there weren't nearly as much monks as were needed. Fortunately you had heroes/henchmen - NPCS - to take along, who did an ok-job in healing.
The main issue is that people don't test builds thoroughly or don't theorycraft for them.
You know howmany times I have to tell eles that they actually can absorb projectiles? (focus) or that guardians can go full zerker and give the same utility as a useless Altruistic Healing "tank"? or that mesmers have the best boon share skil ingame (signet of inspiration),...
So many people just don't realise how versatile the game really is if you want it to be. I do agree that switching weapons in a weaponset (or armor) isn't user friendly, but anyone looking to diversify surely doesn't mind having to manually equip s*f on ele instead of d*d or w/e....
I saved many people before with number 4 on GS Ranger. At range is a perma block, at melee its a block and counter-knock-down.
How many people out there use it to shield someone down while the boss is at range? How many people use the skills as they should? How many people test their builds? XD I honestly think the game isn't very friendly on the trait system as everything can work fine but certain ones if chosen make so much difference. It's the difference between watching me play (not bragging) and my wife. She presses the button as they are available not really on the situation, or thinking much even. She plays abit better than average I would say...but still.
There might not be a "focus" on support, but you can certainly do it if you want it. And then gain you have those wow moments where you "Saved" the day. I think it's all perspective.
I'm both ways on it I'd say I like it in pve but not so much in pvp, it should atleast be tweaked somehow I think.
---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 09:00 AM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 09:06 AM ----------
What's up with the damned add pop-ups on this site now?
When in doubt, mumble...
Actually certain classes (teleporters or immobilise spammers) to briefly get out of combat making it so ppl can hit the rez button but damaging the boss fast enough so he doesn't heal (a lot).
It's sort of a "glitch"
Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone that downleveling is bad. Some people seemed to suggest that they couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't love the feature as the future of every MMO, so I'm trying to put it in context.
Last edited by Lorelei; 2013-04-24 at 01:26 PM. Reason: typos
If there are areas you can now dominate because of your increased power as a hero, the new areas that are difficult, the new raid content, all of that seems vastly greater than what you can faceroll. When all of the game is almost equally as hard, nothing seems magnificently difficult. It's just all difficult and you feel like a chump sometimes.
I like the feeling in GW2 just fine, but would not want it forced in any other game. I think it ties into their philosophy of the entire game being end game and overall just fits for their design, but that's because of many other factors than just the existence of downleveling.
Right. It depends on whether you design your game around content tiers or around all content always being viable. So no, I wouldn't argue downleveling is a good fit for every game, because some games are designed around content having an expiration date. (Technically, GW2 has that type of content, too, but it's implemented as one-time events rather than content that exists in the game and is technically accessible but not posing a challenge)
The reason why ArenaNet won't allow you to one-shot mobs is that you can't really combine that with making dynamic events your primary source of open world content. It would be too easy for high-level players to grief low-level players; even so, I often see players in map chat air their frustration about the effect high-level players have on events in Queensdale or Wayfarer Foothills. And from a business perspective, your players being unable to meaningfully replay content once they outlevel it is a waste of resources.
Last edited by Sylvanie; 2013-04-24 at 08:45 PM.
It can be hard to pin down, because it's all about "feel." I don't play shooters well enough to be able to make meaningful distinctions between say, Battlefield and Call of Duty, but I have friends who swear by one and hate the other because "the weapons don't feel right [in the other one]." Similarly, some people just don't like the way it feels when the numbers change, especially when you get scaled down. Going from hitting for 100 to 50 (arbitrary numbers) can feel weird even if the lower number is harder than non-downscaled typically would hit for. To expand on what Kittyvicious said, it makes it seem sometimes like the lower level creatures are more powerful than the higher level ones because you're hitting them for equal or lesser amounts. Finally, there are some oddities where a high level downscaled character in lower than average gear (or no gear) is actually worse off than a low-level character. That throws people off too.