Verdict on Guild Wars 2's innovations

[Fencers]

Stay on topic.

This is not a thread about the assessment and misunderstanding of other game's play systems.

-- Fencers

[Cyclone Jack]

Colin Johanson gives insights into the thought processes of the Guild Wars 2 Development team during the 5 years the game was in production.

Good watch, thanks for the link. I think they did an overall good job, and I really liked seeing a bit more of their thought process. I also liked how he seems to recognize that they could have gone further towards the level-less system, and I agree. I still think that they need to rethink the trait system. It is, IMO, the weakest link. He talks about depth, but after 6 months I'm still not seeing it.

[Valeron]

What I would like to see with the trait system is at the very least have the ability to make templates like in GW1. It would encourage more creative builds. Right now it is just a bit restrictive in trying different things.

[Lane]

At first I loved the idea of no holy trinity but over time it became such a pain..
Every single fight became the big bad wolf encounter from Karazhan because of this system.
You're targetted? Pop defensive CDs, run away little girl and heal whenever it's off CD.

Hah! Now every time I get aggro from a boss I'm going to hear, "Run away, little girl!" in my head.

This thread is really good at making me depressed about a game I like, how do you do it?

It's not that difficult. Nothing is perfect. If I could ever find a job in real life where I'd get paid to find the faults in things I would be extremely successful. :P

[nevermore]

If I could ever find a job in real life where I'd get paid to find the faults in things I would be extremely successful. :P

Oh god that is my dream job.

[SamR]

Couldn't agree with this more. Individually, there's really nothing difficult about WoW's raids. It's getting 10/25 people to simultaneously not screw up for 10 minutes that is the real challenge.

Well, playing in a team that succeeds together is part of the appeal for some people.

Missy Franklin is one of the best individual swimmers in the world. Gold medals, world records. And yet she's giving up millions in endorsements to swim with a college team. A team where she's likely going to be the most skilled. I doubt she's thinking "man, I just hope my teammates who aren't as good as me don't screw up."

A lot of people like to take specific roles and work in a team where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. When you have no roles and everyone just making sure they're doing their own thing correctly without impacting others, the group is exactly the sum of its parts.

[greysaber]

one major aspect of the game that is most certainly NOT innovative: the camera.

no 1st person view and the widest zoom out is about half as far away as i prefer to play. this is my biggest issue. i am CONSTANTLY scrolling the wheel back because my brain thinks i am zoomed in too close to my character. it's quite immersion breaking for me.

[Valeron]

yeah the camera is not the best but I've gotten used to it so I hardly notice it. Did you play at release? The camera has gotten a lot better since then.

[nevermore]

I really wish we could zoom out a lot more, it's really irritating. Not to mention the game automatically zooms you out during the outdoor events (shadow behemoth, etc) so why can't we do it ourselves?

Also, today's disappointment: took my lvl50 necro to the Cursed Shore (the way there was quite fun actually) only to realise even if I participate in events, hit mobs and stuff, I still don't get credit for anything. LAME.
Now I have to just level normally... which is not very entertaining for the 4th time.
Honestly, leveling 40-80 is just stupidly pointless. You don't get any new abilities, and traits barely make any difference in this game so whatevvvvs.

IDK, the concept of levels doesn't apply very strictly to GW2 so it feels weird that I'm getting c--kblocked simply because I'm too low. You can't even apply conditions to mobs after a certain level difference, all you get is "immune". :/

[Fencers]

People [such as myself] used to run low level alts to the Orr zones and speed level off the events. They sorta made it so that isn't possible anymore. You get nothing now.

But before, afk event farming as level 10 was super lucrative.

[Meledelion]

You don't get any new abilities, and traits barely make any difference in this game so whatevvvvs.

IDK, the concept of levels doesn't apply very strictly to GW2 so it feels weird that I'm getting c--kblocked simply because I'm too low. You can't even apply conditions to mobs after a certain level difference, all you get is "immune". :/

If you think traits don't do much you're using the wrong traits.

The reason farming events is no longer viable is due to people like me who "abused" the hell out of it. At first they only nerfed it so your dmg simply wouldn't be enough to "tag" them this was remedied by partying up. They constricted it even further afterwards

[Valeron]

yeah traits can make a big difference, not sure what you are on about there

[nevermore]

If you think traits don't do much you're using the wrong traits.

The whole trait system is extremely lacklustre in GW2, you can't deny that. The choices you make affect your character only marginally, and you could run with 0 trait points and not be much worse off.
Warrior traits are actually quite decent compared to other professions, but even then I could basically remove all my traits and be roughly 70% as effective as I am fully traited. They simply don't have any real depth and as a result they barely affect your character/playstyle.
You can pick maybe 3-4 things that make your life easier (larger marks for Necro staff skills for example) but they're just... meh.


I don't want to bring up the game that shall not be named, but if you compare their talent system to GW2's traits... yeah, you get the point.

[Valeron]

what game is that?

[Meledelion]

@nevermore
If you truely believe that you're simply traiting/gearing wrong, there's no discussion about this needed.

[Karizee]

The whole trait system is extremely lacklustre in GW2, you can't deny that. The choices you make affect your character only marginally, and you could run with 0 trait points and not be much worse off.
Warrior traits are actually quite decent compared to other professions, but even then I could basically remove all my traits and be roughly 70% as effective as I am fully traited. They simply don't have any real depth and as a result they barely affect your character/playstyle.
You can pick maybe 3-4 things that make your life easier (larger marks for Necro staff skills for example) but they're just... meh.


I don't want to bring up the game that shall not be named, but if you compare their talent system to GW2's traits... yeah, you get the point.

Bring your untraited toon onto the battlefield. I will crush you.

[nevermore]

@nevermore
If you truely believe that you're simply traiting/gearing wrong, there's no discussion about this needed.

Then we're probably playing a different game.
The gear you have and the abilities/weapons you use account for pretty much everything. Traits give you some extra stats, minor buffs and a couple of quality of life improvements.
You can pretend they make any difference but they really don't.

[Karizee]

Then we're probably playing a different game.
The gear you have and the abilities/weapons you use account for pretty much everything. Traits give you some extra stats, minor buffs and a couple of quality of life improvements.
You can pretend they make any difference but they really don't.

I can only assume you are playing the game on the most rudimentary, cursory level imaginable.

Look at Ele traits.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List...ntalist_traits

There are a total of 15 minor and 60 major traits, however you can only pick 14 max.
This is true of all professions.

[greysaber]

The whole trait system is extremely lacklustre in GW2, you can't deny that. The choices you make affect your character only marginally, and you could run with 0 trait points and not be much worse off.
Warrior traits are actually quite decent compared to other professions, but even then I could basically remove all my traits and be roughly 70% as effective as I am fully traited. They simply don't have any real depth and as a result they barely affect your character/playstyle.
You can pick maybe 3-4 things that make your life easier (larger marks for Necro staff skills for example) but they're just... meh.


I don't want to bring up the game that shall not be named, but if you compare their talent system to GW2's traits... yeah, you get the point.

missing 30% output seems like a huge difference to me; and i suspect your estimate is off by at least 10%.

[nevermore]

I can only assume you are playing the game on the most rudimentary, cursory level imaginable.

Look at Ele traits.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List...ntalist_traits

There are a total of 15 minor and 60 major traits, however you can only pick 14 max.
This is true of all professions.

And which one of those 75 traits would you say define your playstyle to such an extent that it makes your character feel different to, let's say, the same profession but with different traits?

Because all I see (and this goes for every prof) is reduced cooldowns, increased damage, and bit of utility here and there. Marginal.

Now I know this is a case of YMMV, but one would expect trait choices to actually push your character into a certain direction to a significant degree, and after that you'd compliment it with gear and weapon choices -- like in pretty much every other successful MMORPG. However, it's not the case in GW2.

Let me present a modified version of the Warrior "Sonic Boon" build, which is the reason why everyone goes ape for Berserk warriors in LFG.
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#...amGG0x0VsVaoRb

It provides one of the best trait-gear synergies in the game, and that being said, it's still kinda meh. Because if you take away all those traits, what do you lose?
Damage (from traits and from less might stacks), cooldown reduction, and some bleed/vulnerability. And shout healing, which is so little you barely notice it.
Okay, great. Of course I would miss those things, but it sure as hell doesn't re-define my character.

But I guess I just want more profound results from a talent system in an mmo.