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  1. #1

    Rogue PVE 4set seems overpowered

    (2) Set: Increases the duration of your finishing moves as if you had used an additional combo point, up to a maximum of 6 combo points.
    (4) Set: Shadow Blades also reduces the cost of all your abilities by 40%.

    And in the recent blue post GC said

    Rogue
    - We think we understand the rogue concerns on the PvE 4pc better now. We don't mind Combat having to unlink AR and SB to maximize the bonus, and we still think the set bonus is a DPS increase over not having it. However, it may be the case that the value of the set bonus forces Combat to swap to another spec because the cooldown stacking is one of the mechanics that keeps Combat competitive. To try to (ahem) combat this, we are going to do something unusual and allow the set bonus to also reduce the global cooldown on rogue abilities to 0.7 sec during Shadow Blades. This should help prevent GCD lock / energy capping. Normally we are very reluctant to reduce the GCD lower than 1 sec, so this is very much an experiment.


    So, we will see 7 sec kidney shot(with cheap shot it will be 3.5 though) plus 0.7 sec GCD Ambush costing 24 energy during dance+blades, which will allow rogue to spam ambush all the way during the dance.

    I heard that rogue burst is already beyond control in PTR, but with the tier bonus it will become worse.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire zanexlol's Avatar
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    Isn't this the PvE set? If so, who cares?
    Yes, we are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a mushroom.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    Isn't this the PvE set? If so, who cares?
    Because rogues are going to use it when it's better than PVP one

    Already forgot vial/daggers?

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire zanexlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Because rogues are going to use it when it's better than PVP one
    And those rogues will be at a severe disadvantage because of the loss of the PvP set/power/resilience.
    Yes, we are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a mushroom.

  5. #5
    Whaat?? Pve gear used in pvp? Nonsense I say...with the state of rogues defenses, using 4 pve pieces...hell even 2 pieces would ramp up the chances of one to stay alive during a stun. Hence the burst or the +1 sec on kidney would not suffice the loss of resillience / pvp power.
    Rogues don't do buffs or other group things. If you want a hug ask the Paladin.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    And those rogues will be at a severe disadvantage because of the loss of the PvP set/power/resilience.
    If you can oneshot someone in an opener, why do you need resil?

    rogue pvp tier bonus is

    2- free crippling poison (does not matter if stunned)
    4- +30 energy (-40% energy cost is way better)

    So both tier bonuses doesn't really matter is rogue is intending to drop someone 100-0ish.



    I am not arguing that rogue will use pve 4set all the time, but switching to it while having blades+dance will enable stupid burst.


    Also raid items' high iLVL can compensate for the PVP power loss (actually more damage)
    (compare elite tyrannical chest with heroic chest tier=> +259 Agility, +400ish offstat, EXTRA GEM SOCKET compared to -475 PVP power; do you really think all of these are worse?)
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-02-14 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    If they were willing to survive a big amount of resilience and PvP power, as well as their PvP setbonuses for a small increase in burst, then that's perfectly fine.
    Unlike cataclysm, is PvP gear still very strong for PvP when geared. In cataclysm, PvP gear became rather worthless after a certain resilience amount.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Because rogues are going to use it when it's better than PVP one

    Already forgot vial/daggers?
    Have you already forgot how pvp gear works in this expansion?

  9. #9
    The way that post is written it looked more like he was saying combat rogues get that gcd reduction not all the specs so no dance+shadow blades super low gcd.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If they were willing to survive a big amount of resilience and PvP power, as well as their PvP setbonuses for a small increase in burst, then that's perfectly fine.
    Unlike cataclysm, is PvP gear still very strong for PvP when geared. In cataclysm, PvP gear became rather worthless after a certain resilience amount.
    This. Yeah, they will have a sick set bonus, but they give up their PvP set bonuses PLUS pvp power PLUS resil.
    If you are worried about dying in an opener, play 3's. When your teammate peels off of you and notices the rogue has crap pvp gear, said rogue explodes.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    The way that post is written it looked more like he was saying combat rogues get that gcd reduction not all the specs so no dance+shadow blades super low gcd.
    The tier bonuses are very weak for all three specs compared to the t14 bonuses it needs buffs for all three. Pve gear in pvp a trinket that could happen but a whole 4 set thats not gonna happen. They have done enough to fix pve gear in pvp other than maybe trinkets.

    Also I think the op highlighted the wrong thing let me fix this for you

    this is very much an experiment.
    Last edited by wow; 2013-02-14 at 06:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    totally skip those 15% moar damage on the pvp set, who needs it anyway?

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    totally skip those 15% moar damage on the pvp set, who needs it anyway?
    Yeah have fun killing people in an opener when you are missing all that pvp power and your target has that much more resilience. (and every class has at least one defensive ability to counter your cooldowns)

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    People are talking about this like PvP gear didn't undergo a change in MoP. This would've been useful in Cata, but not now.
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

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  15. #15
    i think the OP dont know how the pvp power / resil works since MoP any pve gear u bring to pvp mostlikely will drag u down , i wish u get your 4 set pve and join some arenas face 2BMs or warriors and come back let us know how much of and opening u had and how much u survived after

  16. #16
    I think a lot of people aren't grasping how much the itemlevel difference between the two sets will mean, even with the pvp power in the equation. We're talking 40 itemlevels between the heroic pve chest and the tyrannical set equivalent. The pvp power you lose was already written out, it's 475, that's roughly 1,5% damage. That's if you don't use the extra gemslot to gem pvp power which is probably something people who pvp will be willing to do. There's also talk about more damage coming in due to the lower resilience, while that is true it's also in the region of a few percent whereas you gain significant ammounts of stamina by going for the PvE set.

  17. #17
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    People are talking about this like PvP gear didn't undergo a change in MoP. This would've been useful in Cata, but not now.
    I just sometimes get the feeling that people like to complain about Rogues, just to complain about Rogues.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    I think a lot of people aren't grasping how much the itemlevel difference between the two sets will mean, even with the pvp power in the equation. We're talking 40 itemlevels between the heroic pve chest and the tyrannical set equivalent. The pvp power you lose was already written out, it's 475, that's roughly 1,5% damage. That's if you don't use the extra gemslot to gem pvp power which is probably something people who pvp will be willing to do. There's also talk about more damage coming in due to the lower resilience, while that is true it's also in the region of a few percent whereas you gain significant ammounts of stamina by going for the PvE set.

    You're also forgetting the 500 power / 1k res (or is it the other way around?) on the 2 + 4 set on all PvP gear. That is on top of the power + res you would lose across the 4 bits....that's a BIG difference

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    And those rogues will be at a severe disadvantage because of the loss of the PvP set/power/resilience.
    Rogues are one of the few classes that aren't as dependent on resilience.

    With MoP PvP as it is, buffed burst might be worth giving up PvP power.

    Rogue PvP set bonuses aren't ground breakingly important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telila View Post
    You're also forgetting the 500 power / 1k res (or is it the other way around?) on the 2 + 4 set on all PvP gear. That is on top of the power + res you would lose across the 4 bits....that's a BIG difference
    Here are the stat losses when you switch out Gloves/Shoulders/Chest/Legs:

    PvP Power - 2156 8.26%
    PvP Resilience - 2656 8.5%

    PvP Resilience loss might be significant, but PvP Power loss due to PvE gear is marginal.

    You're also forgetting the fact that PvE items are of a higher ilvl which compensates for the PvP power loss. If you're just comparing Agility of PvE T15 (non Heroic) with PvP T14 (non Elite), gloves/shoulders have 274 more AGI and helm/chest/legs have 368 more AGI. These aren't trivial amounts.

    The PvE 2 set is nice too.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-02-15 at 06:02 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post


    Here are the stat losses when you switch out Gloves/Shoulders/Chest/Legs:

    PvP Power - 2156 8.26%
    PvP Resilience - 2656 8.5%

    PvP Resilience loss might be significant, but PvP Power loss due to PvE gear is marginal.

    You're also forgetting the fact that PvE items are of a higher ilvl which compensates for the PvP power loss. If you're just comparing Agility of PvE T15 (non Heroic) with PvP T14 (non Elite), gloves/shoulders have 274 more AGI and helm/chest/legs have 368 more AGI. These aren't trivial amounts.

    The PvE 2 set is nice too.
    The elite gear seems to have the same ilvl and stat allocation as the non-elite tyrannical on the PTR, but I guess this is just temporary?

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