View Poll Results: Should there be more gold from the act of pvping.

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  • Yes

    154 68.14%
  • No

    72 31.86%
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Yes, and why should a PVP player get that gold from BG's while a raider has to go and do quests, gathering and what not to get the gold to maintain the toon with that stuff?
    Gold should be based on time not which activities you choose. All activities should provide similar gold rewards for time invested. And as far as PvE is concerned most are somewhat close. There doesn't seem any real reason to make one activity not rewarding compared to the others. Let's be honest the vast majority of PvE activities are not difficult in the slightest and you should not be dieing AT ALL, the only time you die in PvE is doing progression raids, and in bad LFR groups. That is still a tiny slice of the gold generating PvE activities people participate in and even in bad LFR groups the gold provided with quest rewards covers repairs, and I am still getting gear, fail bags with gold and gold and gear drops from trash.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullus View Post
    you guys seem to be under the impression "pve" players like doing dailies or farming mobs, it is something we are forced to do to net an end result of being raid ready. while i support the possibility of a pvp daily the idea of rewarding you guys even more for losses is absurd. You raid and fail to kill boss you get nothing but repair bills, you pvp and never win and you still earn gear. I will support pvp gold rewards for losses when i can wipe on boss and get to pick what loot i want from them after enough wipes.
    Could not have said it better myself.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trops View Post
    Those bots are not there for the gold, but honor. Adding a minor gold reward won't make much of a difference since the ones farming honor are already in BGs and the ones farming gold will have much more effective methods for it.

    Edit: is there anyone that even bothers to loot bodies in PvP? It's a waste of time, which is precious in PvP. People would probably not even touch them if there wasn't a cast time on it.
    i doubt ti since in pvp the corpses only carry a few copper

  4. #84
    I voted yes, even though I don't PvP.

    PvP'ers are forced to PvE to make gold, or play the AH (which shouldn't be expected or necessary to make enough gold to get by). This is bad design.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Yes, and why should a PVP player get that gold from BG's while a raider has to go and do quests, gathering and what not to get the gold to maintain the toon with that stuff?
    they can farm it via dungeons

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    It's not really "more expensive" you might want to quote where I said that. In fact it becomes a big plus on the long run because of gold and item drops.

    What kind of BS are you spouting? You come out of the woodworks and make a lot of claims without backing anything up whatsoever. Cashflow only works in PvE guilds, a great many of those only allow repair for RAIDERS and nobody else. In fact this is a fairly good argument why raiders usually go out of their raids with a big plus in the end.
    In most PvP guilds this is not the case, people are more often than not doing hardly any PvE whatsoever and thus cashflow generates far less money if any. Just like the vast majority of bonus gold comes from PvE and PvE only.

    You can do the following things for Gold per Week:
    Guild Dungeons 7 - 250 Gold - 1750 Gold per Week. (3 People)
    Guild Scenario 15 - 250 Gold - 3750 Gold per Week. (2 People)
    Guild CDungeons 3 - 500 Gold - 1500 Gold per Week. (3 People)
    Guild Raid 1 - 1000 Gold - 1000 Gold per Week. (7-8 People)

    All in all 8000 Gold per week with as little as 3 people working together.

    For PvP per week it's:
    Guild Battleground 500 Gold - 1500 per Week. (7-8 people)

    All in all 1500 gold per week needing 7-8 people at the very least.

    I'm not sure if you are trolling, or if you even play the same game (WoW) as I do... PvE IS "more expensive" than PvP- it's just common knowledge that does not need to be backed up if you've played the game, the repairs alone outweigh any pvp repairs. Cashflow affects the guild's gold, not a players and also cashflow works in both PvE and PvP guilds, it's a perk (if your guild is of level). Whether people do activities for the guild to benefit from cashflow is a different story.. Not sure why you include that gold per week in here it's irrelevant as it doesn't pertain to the individual gaining gold only the guild bank.
    The amount you gain at the end of a raid isn't that much if you're a good raider and prepare flasks/pots. And also many players have multiple specs and have to reforge their gear (if they cannot obtain a second set) every time they switch. I do not recall having to reforge more than once for PvP (initially obtaining gear) as gear is so easy to obtain that you easily have more than one set.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    I'm not sure if you are trolling, or if you even play the same game (WoW) as I do... PvE IS "more expensive" than PvP- it's just common knowledge that does not need to be backed up if you've played the game, the repairs alone outweigh any pvp repairs. Cashflow affects the guild's gold, not a players and also cashflow works in both PvE and PvP guilds, it's a perk (if your guild is of level). Whether people do activities for the guild to benefit from cashflow is a different story.. Not sure why you include that gold per week in here it's irrelevant as it doesn't pertain to the individual gaining gold only the guild bank.
    The amount you gain at the end of a raid isn't that much if you're a good raider and prepare flasks/pots. And also many players have multiple specs and have to reforge their gear (if they cannot obtain a second set) every time they switch. I do not recall having to reforge more than once for PvP (initially obtaining gear) as gear is so easy to obtain that you easily have more than one set.
    I'm not sure if you are trolling, or if you even play the same game (WoW) as I do...
    PvE is not more expensive. Only 1 tiny aspect of PvE participated in by a small segment of the poplulation is more expensive. The vast majority of PvE activities that reward gold are easy, have very little risk, and absolutely no reason you should be dieing. As far as consumables and respecing and buying gear go, perhaps you should be comparing elite levels of PvE with elite levels of PvP, because when you are at elite levels everyone is looking for every advantage they can get to improve themselves regardless of PvE or PvP.

    So would it be a fair compromise if deaths in Arena(and only arena) did incur a durability penalty? BGs and world PvP in anyform is kind of ridiculous considering that is is casual/semi-casual level PvP, and absolutely nobody should be dieing in casual PvE content often enough to be expensive.

  8. #88
    Can you explain to me how it is not more expensive? I seem to be missing your point on how it isn't. Ya'll just keep saying it is not more expensive
    Let us use elite levels of gameplay where a new patch just came out and also a new season. It's the second week in...
    Repairs:
    pvp- still minimal
    Pve- By now heroics will be attempted and on average 30 deaths before a kill per boss.
    Gear:
    Enchants and gems are equal for both
    Consumables:
    Pve- Flasks- minimum of 4(?), Potions- a ton since you pot twice per fight (pre-pot and during hero or whenever)
    PvP- Can't use consumables

    ^^^^^^^^^^
    These attributes still applies to casual raids as well, if you think casuals don't wipe a lot then you are crazy. Wiping alone, as previously stated in another post, causes PvE to be more expensive than PvP. Many casual raids still have people bring flasks.

    I do not believe there should be a durability penalty for pvp when you die. I just don't think PvPers should have a gold income for doing RBGs/Arenas. Just do the Shieldwall dailies and kill horde/alliance while you're at it.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    I'm not sure if you are trolling, or if you even play the same game (WoW) as I do... PvE IS "more expensive" than PvP- it's just common knowledge that does not need to be backed up if you've played the game, the repairs alone outweigh any pvp repairs. Cashflow affects the guild's gold, not a players and also cashflow works in both PvE and PvP guilds, it's a perk (if your guild is of level). Whether people do activities for the guild to benefit from cashflow is a different story.. Not sure why you include that gold per week in here it's irrelevant as it doesn't pertain to the individual gaining gold only the guild bank
    First of all, the troll here seems to be you. PvE isn't more expensive, aside from high rated PvE progress raiding and even then it's only while on progress. Later one you will actually make money with it, because of both boss and trash drops (gold and BoE to be sold). The rest of PvE is a gold POSITIVE endeavor, you get more gold than you could ever spend unless you a very, very, very bad.
    The reason I brought up cashflow is because no gold is generated during PvP at all, while most PvE activities do generate quite a bit. The ways to make gold for the guild bank are important because many guilds actually use them to pay for raiders repair costs and other stuff for them, again a way to offset the tiny gold loss of high rated progress raiding.
    The amount you gain at the end of a raid isn't that much if you're a good raider and prepare flasks/pots. And also many players have multiple specs and have to reforge their gear (if they cannot obtain a second set) every time they switch. I do not recall having to reforge more than once for PvP (initially obtaining gear) as gear is so easy to obtain that you easily have more than one set.
    You sir are obviously not playing any kind of highrated PvP, the "gear is easily to obtain so that you have several sets" shows this. Normal good sets cost conquest gear, have fun getting more than one in a single season. Also having more sets means more enchants, gems and reforging. And don't act as if you were constantly switching around in PvE, you are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    Can you explain to me how it is not more expensive? I seem to be missing your point on how it isn't. Ya'll just keep saying it is not more expensive
    Let us use elite levels of gameplay where a new patch just came out and also a new season. It's the second week in...
    Repairs:
    pvp- still minimal
    Pve- By now heroics will be attempted and on average 30 deaths before a kill per boss.
    Gear:
    Enchants and gems are equal for both
    Consumables:
    Pve- Flasks- minimum of 4(?), Potions- a ton since you pot twice per fight (pre-pot and during hero or whenever)
    PvP- Can't use consumables
    Let's see. Bosses drop gold and items, trash drops gold and items. As soon as you don't need those BoE anymore the stuff will be sold refunding you guys a lot of gold. On the long run most bosses end up on farm status and will simply drop dead as soon as the raid shows up. No more big repair costs, still the same big reward from killing them and the random stuff that drops.
    Add to that that most guilds cover the repair costs for their raiders through the guild bank and you guys will fairly soom make a big +.

    In PvP you keep the same repair costs and they are far from minimal. You guys are crying about a few hundred gold, I have over a hundred gold repair costs from a single day of pvp aswell. Somehow THAT for several days is minimal, while 200-300 gold on a day where you get just as much or even more is A LOT.


    These attributes still applies to casual raids as well, if you think casuals don't wipe a lot then you are crazy. Wiping alone, as previously stated in another post, causes PvE to be more expensive than PvP. Many casual raids still have people bring flasks.

    I do not believe there should be a durability penalty for pvp when you die. I just don't think PvPers should have a gold income for doing RBGs/Arenas. Just do the Shieldwall dailies and kill horde/alliance while you're at it.
    And I don't think PvE players should get an gold income from raids, why do bosses drop gold in the first place, they already reward you with loot! In all honesty, you simply state "I don't want PvPers to have that, just because f**** them, no reason given. Just cause I and all the other PvE people would rather cut of my own leg than having those nasty PvP people have anything.

    Man this is the exact same reason why I hate, really hate, every single last PvE player on this game.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2013-02-22 at 02:50 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    Can you explain to me how it is not more expensive? I seem to be missing your point on how it isn't. Ya'll just keep saying it is not more expensive
    Let us use elite levels of gameplay where a new patch just came out and also a new season. It's the second week in...
    Repairs:
    pvp- still minimal
    Pve- By now heroics will be attempted and on average 30 deaths before a kill per boss.
    Gear:
    Enchants and gems are equal for both
    Consumables:
    Pve- Flasks- minimum of 4(?), Potions- a ton since you pot twice per fight (pre-pot and during hero or whenever)
    PvP- Can't use consumables

    ^^^^^^^^^^
    These attributes still applies to casual raids as well, if you think casuals don't wipe a lot then you are crazy. Wiping alone, as previously stated in another post, causes PvE to be more expensive than PvP. Many casual raids still have people bring flasks.

    I do not believe there should be a durability penalty for pvp when you die. I just don't think PvPers should have a gold income for doing RBGs/Arenas. Just do the Shieldwall dailies and kill horde/alliance while you're at it.
    You can't lump all of PvE in with one tiny aspect of it, especially when it only is participated in by a small segment of the population.

    Are you seriously trying to tell me you are wiping on every single boss, multiple times, every week? Really? If not you still should be coming out ahead as the only boss you should be wiping on is the last boss in your current progression. The point on consumables is pretty moot, we are talking about gold specifically not herbs etc... And I don't know any serious guilds that are buying their flasks off the AH.

    Also what do you lose by having PvP players on a level playing ground as far as gold is concerned?

  11. #91
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    gota pve to pvp in this game. always has been.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post

    You sir are obviously not playing any kind of highrated PvP, the "gear is easily to obtain so that you have several sets" shows this. Normal good sets cost conquest gear, have fun getting more than one in a single season. Also having more sets means more enchants, gems and reforging. And don't act as if you were constantly switching around in PvE, you are not.


    Let's see. Bosses drop gold and items, trash drops gold and items. As soon as you don't need those BoE anymore the stuff will be sold refunding you guys a lot of gold. On the long run most bosses end up on farm status and will simply drop dead as soon as the raid shows up. No more big repair costs, still the same big reward from killing them and the random stuff that drops.
    Add to that that most guilds cover the repair costs for their raiders through the guild bank and you guys will fairly soom make a big +.

    In PvP you keep the same repair costs and they are far from minimal. You guys are crying about a few hundred gold, I have over a hundred gold repair costs from a single day of pvp aswell. Somehow THAT for several days is minimal, while 200-300 gold on a day where you get just as much or even more is A LOT.



    And I don't think PvE players should get an gold income from raids, why do bosses drop gold in the first place, they already reward you with loot! In all honesty, you simply state "I don't want PvPers to have that, just because f**** them, no reason given. Just cause I and all the other PvE people would rather cut of my own leg than having those nasty PvP people have anything.

    Man this is the exact same reason why I hate, really hate, every single last PvE player on this game.
    I reforge often to test mutilate (i am normally combat) and they have, for the most part, different stats you go for. I do not change every week, maybe once every 3 weeks. But we have a priest, and a druid who have to reforge 1-2 times a night. You act like you know how we raid.
    Most boe epics (recipes because there are no boe epics of raid quality that drop) usually go to guild bank or someone to use right there, not give to whoever to AH (from my experience in all the guilds I have raided with).
    A FULL DAY of pvp MIGHT, JUST MIGHT get you up to 200g repairs if you're doing RBGs and fighting constantly. in a four hour period a raid's repairs can double that. Gold is dropped for repairs, because the fights last anywhere between 3-10+minutes each time. Also so you pvp for a full day multiple days a week? I am assuming a full day is from like noon to midnight, I highly doubt it. Raids are typically 2-3 nights a week for casuals. And we are not "crying" about the repair bills, it's apart of raiding... you should expect repairs.
    This season is an exception for obtaining multiple sets due to upgrading costs, but every other season, if you only pvp and can't get more than one set you are bad, very bad... 1400 rating i would say?
    I did not say fuck them[PvPers]. I do some pvp, not at a high rated level because I do not care to this season, rogues are meh. I think they need to add honor/conquest vendors for currently materials, not the useless motes. But then you would probably complain because you have to use trade chat or AH. So why not have a full time vendor that buys your honor/conquest like how they have the conversions at the end of every season.



    How is calculating herbs into this moot? It just adds to the value for PvE... You cannot simply just ignore it. As for wiping, we are a casual guild that does heroics. We typically don't wipe on normals unless we goof off, but we do wipe on heroics as we do not have every heroic boss on farm, or dead for that matter.

  13. #93
    you could farm honor and sell blue pvp items to vendor, sell arena boosts/rbg boosts or just do it like a normal person and get a proffesion despite the fact its "pve" as many ppl state it here, even tho im not sure what would be more lucrative while waitin for queue. theres your money
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2013-02-22 at 03:50 AM.
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  14. #94
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    PLEASE GOD YES!

    Tired of seeing PVEers getting rich just becase of all the gold they get from loot bags and the like. Very frustrating to have a budget IRL and in-game just because I prefer PVP.

    Words to live by.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    you could farm honor and sell blue pvp items to vendor, sell arena boosts/rbg boosts or just do it like a normal person and get a proffesion despite the fact its "pve" as many ppl state it here, even tho im not sure what would be more lucrative while waitin for queue. theres your money
    In the time it takes to farm that much honor for 20g you'd probably accrue the same amount in repairs.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    I reforge often to test mutilate (i am normally combat) and they have, for the most part, different stats you go for. I do not change every week, maybe once every 3 weeks. But we have a priest, and a druid who have to reforge 1-2 times a night. You act like you know how we raid.
    Most boe epics (recipes because there are no boe epics of raid quality that drop) usually go to guild bank or someone to use right there, not give to whoever to AH (from my experience in all the guilds I have raided with).
    And the guild bank usually pays for repairs and flasks. You reforging is you playing around, nothing else.
    A FULL DAY of pvp MIGHT, JUST MIGHT get you up to 200g repairs if you're doing RBGs and fighting constantly. in a four hour period a raid's repairs can double that. Gold is dropped for repairs, because the fights last anywhere between 3-10+minutes each time. Also so you pvp for a full day multiple days a week? I am assuming a full day is from like noon to midnight, I highly doubt it. Raids are typically 2-3 nights a week for casuals. And we are not "crying" about the repair bills, it's apart of raiding... you should expect repairs.
    A decent enough guild makes a plus eventually, so according to you those drops ought to be removed.
    This season is an exception for obtaining multiple sets due to upgrading costs, but every other season, if you only pvp and can't get more than one set you are bad, very bad... 1400 rating i would say?
    Nice try, I can currently get way over 3600 points per week and only now at the very end of the season I can pouring points into other things than my main set. Because buying the entire set, upgrading it, getting the elite set and such takes a hell of a lot of points. And there is no reason to believe this will go away again, ever. In fact seeing as how we soon will have to farm a second set atop the first...
    I did not say fuck them[PvPers]. I do some pvp, not at a high rated level because I do not care to this season, rogues are meh. I think they need to add honor/conquest vendors for currently materials, not the useless motes. But then you would probably complain because you have to use trade chat or AH. So why not have a full time vendor that buys your honor/conquest like how they have the conversions at the end of every season.
    Honor would only encourage botting. It's a bad idea. The best solution would to reward 50-100 gold for a won Arena/RBG at the end. That way bots wouldn't really work and people could still farm gold in the same kind of way they farm it from heroic dungeons. There really isn't a good argument against this.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakamuraa View Post
    Um this but arena ad rbgs should receive the same amount. Not different amounts rbgs are easy.
    Oh definitely, it's just that RBGs take longer than Arena games.

    I really see no downside to adding small gold rewards to rated pvp. You can't (effectively) bot and win in arena or RBGs.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post

    Nice try, I can currently get way over 3600 points per week and only now at the very end of the season I can pouring points into other things than my main set. Because buying the entire set, upgrading it, getting the elite set and such takes a hell of a lot of points. And there is no reason to believe this will go away again, ever. In fact seeing as how we soon will have to farm a second set atop the first...
    This has been the only season that has had "upgrades" (not from blue, epic to elite). And as far as I understood, next season will not have those upgrades. At least at the beginning/any time in 5.2... The individual gear upgrade was the only reason obtaining a full 2nd or 3rd set was hard, without this it's easily obtainable. Also what is "way over 3600 points"?

    Also 50g for an arena win seems high seeing as you can win a game in 30 seconds. And you can farm these games easily. 15-25g would be more reasonable.
    Last edited by Nightsorrow12; 2013-02-22 at 07:38 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsorrow12 View Post
    This has been the only season that has had "upgrades" (not from blue, epic to elite). And as far as I understood, next season will not have those upgrades. At least at the beginning/any time in 5.2... The individual gear upgrade was the only reason obtaining a full 2nd or 3rd set was hard, without this it's easily obtainable. Also what is "way over 3600 points"?
    First of all, next season for the first time will force you to get two sets. First the new conquest set that is hardly any better than my current 2/2 gear, then the new elite set. So you will spend the vast majority of points on those items and then you get to upgrade them when 5.3 hits.

    And "way over 3600" is my way of saying I'm to lazy to go and look it up right now but it is over 3600 points week for me. So nowhere near your "1400" rating, something you btw never even broke. But seeing how you still managed to get an arena title your battlegroup is dead anyway.

    Also 50g for an arena win seems high seeing as you can win a game in 30 seconds. And you can farm these games easily. 15-25g would be more reasonable.
    Any game against a decent team isn't won in 30 seconds, there is a reason they just lowered the timer down from 45 minutes. Please don't build this whole thing around your below 1550 Arena exp.

  20. #100
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    No. You can strictly pvp and still make more than enough gold to keep your gear perfectly enchanted, barring maybe extremely expensive first tier of expansion crystal enchants. Disenchanting honor gear, using honor vendors for mats, even just vendoring cheap honor crap, it all works. You won't be rich, but that's how it is.

    If blizzard buffs gold gain even slightly in pvp, the bots will be unbearable and blizzard will have to do something about it ($) and that just is not in their budget.

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