If you insist on soaking traps, don't tank him on the throne or you get tossed up like that. Tank him half way up the stairs.
If you insist on soaking traps, don't tank him on the throne or you get tossed up like that. Tank him half way up the stairs.
Okay so, managed the ice thingies, but wiped due to Silence, guess gotta kill Raging Spirits.
Btw. Wiped @34% with 3min left till Berserk. Is that good, or i need more gear?
Btw armory doesn't show, but i'm fully haste gemmed now, using all possible pots, flasks n stuff, and im around ~23ish % haste.
Ok managed to get "decent" P2-P3 transition, but im waisting alot of time killing raging spirits and ice thingies.. :/
Managed to get LK to ~21%, when the transition ended, got ported to frostmourne room and got 1 shotted there :/
Guess i'll try to do 10+ mins in P1, for more adds, and just zerg it tru P2-P3 transition and ignore raging spirits..let's see how this goes
Any advice, or should just get better gear ;p
Wondering how the actual vengeance changes put in will change anything. Don't think the DR on multiple targets was necessarily the smartest idea... (for instance, would things change if you got a big add first and small add second versus the reverse?)
So with these new vengeance changes on the ptr what's the chance exactly of us or dks still being able to do this fight this expac?
1) Extend Phase 1 to 10 minutes
2) Use Seal of Insight throughout
3) Keep Sacred Shield up at all times - refresh it at the 15 second mark if you must, and then refresh it when he get's to 70% and again at 41%
4) Replace Avenger's Shield binding/button with this macro;5) At 40% transition, pop Holy Avenger, Avenging Wrath, Divine Protection, Aura Mastery, Ardent Defender, and GoaKCode:#showtooltip /tar Ice Sphere /cast Avenger's Shield /tar The Lich King
6) Spam Avenger's Shield macro (above) AND Shield of the Righteous
7) Watch for the 'Phase Transition' timer. When it get's to ~5 seconds, pop Execution Sentence on the Lich King
If you did it right, and you've got enough haste, you should be able to beat him down. ES on the LK before the transition ensures you get another few seconds of decent damage on him after the transition ends, and it might be what finishes it off to the 10% mark.
As I said before, the DPS increase I saw from 494 to 502 was massive on this fight. We're talking several hundred thousand DPS increase during burst, and a significant amount during sustained on the transition phase.
That macro was the single biggest change I made though, and it alone moved me from barely hitting 25% on the transition to hitting 10% with some time to spare. I basically don't even see the target switch, and with GC proccing so much, I never miss an Ice Sphere. You DO have to watch for them landing, and move yourself around to face them, but otherwise it's a straight up burst. I think you can probably even have that macro 'in place' permanently, as it won't be able to target the LK or Ice Sphere if they don't exist, and will instead cast on your current target (e.g. a boss in ToT, a player in a BG, or a mob in the world, etc).
You'll dodge/parry most attacks, block the others, absorb some more, and heal those that do get through or those that did damage through blocks. This is why SoI is needed here. You NEVER stop to WoG yourself in the transition phase, you're using all your Holy Power exclusively on ShoR/SotR (I prefer the ShoR abbreviation that came around in WotLK). Since you're silenced, it's often not possible to get WoG off anyway, but since ShoR and AS are 'physical' attacks, they can't be countered by the silence from the spirits.
Also, since ShoR isn't on the GCD, you could probably modify the macro like this;
That should cast ShoR if you've got enough Holy Power, and AS if it's not on cooldown (either through normal 15 second CD, or through a GC proc). Having them switched around won't work, as the ability NOT on the GCD must be first in line in a macro. Failing that, using a /castsequence macro in place of those 2 lines would work. Using #showtooltip set to AS allows you to see the cooldown of it, as opposed to that of ShoR (which has no realistic cooldown).Code:#showtooltip Avenger's Shield /tar Ice Sphere /cast Shield of the Righteous /cast Avenger's Shield /tar The Lich King
- DR's on multimob vengeance? We need some solid numbers to be able to calculate it.
- 30% cap? Won't affect 90's.
- No damage from AoE? Will make standing in Defile and remorseless winter worthless
- No Vengeance from missed attacks? Not a big deal.
- 1.5% instead of 1.8%? Again, not a big deal - it just validates extending the phase as a more valuable tactic.
- Sacred Shield being 30% less effective? Quite a concern, but nothing we can't handle.
I'm most concerned about the DR's. My main concern is that it'll stop giving any vengeance once there's a specific number of mobs, making any of the tactics unviable without extremely high gear level (i.e. > 540) and thus relatively high effective DPS.
The SS change is a little concerning. I recall my SS absorbed around 12M damage or so on my last solo kill, and that'll be 8.4M with the 30% nerf. That's enough to kill me 11.5 times. Overall though, I don't think this change will hurt our soloing ability on the fight. Again, my main concern is the DR's they're adding. Until we've got numbers though, I'm gonna try and not worry.
The GC change is a massive buff though, so it might balance out. Having it proc more than twice the amount it already does in this fight will mean there's almost never going to be downtime on it once you get to 'wave 4' of the adds. Right now, there are sometimes stretches where it doesn't proc for a while, but this change will reduce that to an extremely rare occurrence.
Last edited by Chronalis; 2013-08-03 at 05:04 PM.
Would just like to thank the guide creator and the other posters in this thread giving advice on how to do this. I ended up doing the zerg strat (10 minute phase 1) and got the mount on my first attempt!!
Can anyone here help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?
I had a level 85 paladin laying around, and saw the post by michalus showing a fairly cheap gear set to kill this boss, and decided I'd try it out. I made a few modifications, but this is my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggins/advanced. I also looked through the thread and saw another post by michalus detailing the strategy. I also watched a video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3CtN6_1Q-g) This may be a l2p issue on my part, but I'm really having a tough time with this boss.
-First off, I'm having problems with infest ticks. The damage I take is EXTREMELY spiky, much more so than the video I linked above. Often, I'll keep 5 holy power in preparation for an infest tick, but the hits from the adds will bring me below 90% hp after dumping the holy power. It seems like this is happening too fast for the game to register that my hp was above 90% (often capped) and the infest kills me or I have to blow LoH (sometimes this happens with LoH as well).
-Second, I touched on this above, but my damage is very spiky. In phase 1 I'm often getting my low health message (80k ish HP). Word of glory and seal of insight usually bring it back up, but in the video I watched the paladin doesn't ever really go below 90% hp.
-Also, t1 often kills me if I get to it. On my last kill, the combat log is showing around 5 hits from shambling horrors and lich king from 40k-70k damage. Am I doing something wrong here? I'm trying to keep all the adds in front of me during this phase, but I'm still taking a ton of damage from all of them. I usually don't have enough globals to keep my hp up while killing the frozen orbs (due to the spiky damage).
-Lastly, is there any point in the fight where I should stop using word of glory and start using all my holy power for shield of the righteous?
If it helps, I'll detail the strat I'm running right now.
P1 - Keeping SS up, using crusader strike, judgement, avengers shield to generate holy power. Using word of glory when needed. Trying to save holy power before an infest if I'm capped so I can bring my health up in case I take some add damage. Using holy wrath for some damage as well (glyphed).
T1- Start backpedaling to the middle in preparation for when he hits 70%. Try to keep adds behind me while killing frozen orbs with judgement and shield. I'm not having problems with the frozen orbs since I farm this fight on my death knight.
Past this point, I usually die to a lot of damage coming in a short period of time. I am keeping SS up at all times.
Any advice would be nice. Again, this could be a l2p issue. I leveled this paladin via RAF so I just started playing prot last night, on this fight. However, I'm at 27 wipes now and it is starting to get frustrating.
edit: Well I think I've got phase 1 down. The damage is still really spiky, but as long as I let infest ramp up my vengeance 2 word of glorys usually gets me. Now t1 is really killing me. The silences hurt, even when I'm rotating cooldowns (divine protection, devotion aura, guardian of the ancient kings). I did get 1 15% attempt, but I can't say I reliably get past t1.
second edit: Well I got him, took a TON of wipes though. Guess I should have listened to the 90 advice and just spammed avengers shield and shield of righteous after the first phase.
Last edited by babykdog; 2013-08-05 at 11:24 PM.
Following on from my earlier comments on the vengeance changes, I've now got some expansion to do now we've got some numbers.
Vengeance AOE Cap
This is going to be a huge change. This change alone will need some actual testing, but it could mean that soloing the LK on 25 Heroic may no longer be possible without extremely good gear.
I don't know the damage values of the bosses. Let's assume these DPS values;
- Boss DPS: 75000
- Add DPS: 25000
These are rough values (pre-mitigation - so not actual), and are what we'll use to calculate vengeance. Note that this graph ISN'T meant to give hard-values, just a comparison between pre-5.4, and post-5.4 - feel free to ignore the values, unless you're comparing percentages. Also note that these values are for the boss and 40 adds;
(Click for full size)
Blue Line: Pre 5.4.
Green Line: Post 5.4.
I assumed 40 adds. The likelyhood is that you'll end up with many more if you're doing the zerg tactic.
You can see that it's a linear scale right now (i.e. before 5.4). There's a slight adjustment in the angle between where boss damage starts and add damage starts being calculated - this is just the scaling on the graph and not indicative of it not being linear. With 5.4, this changes dramatically and becomes a very slight incline. It'll continue to climb, but eventually, you'd reach the point of only gaining 1 AP from vengeance if you had enough mobs (though that'd require 25000 adds to occur so it's not a realistic calculation).
The math formula is something like this;
(BossDmg + (addDmg/n)*n)*1.5/100
In programming terms;
Code:TotalDmg := BossDmg; AddToGraph(TotalDmg); for i := 1 to 40 do begin TotalDmg := (TotalDmg + (AddDmg/i))*1.5/100; AddToGraph(TotalDmg); end;
The previous formula was;
(BossDmg + (AddDmg*n))*1.8/100
In programming terms;
Code:TotalDmg := BossDmg; AddToGraph(TotalDmg); for i := 1 to 40 do begin TotalDmg := (TotalDmg + AddDmg)*1.5/100; AddToGraph(TotalDmg); end;
Based on the values, we're looking at potentially only gaining 14-15% of the vengeance we do right now on LK25H (at least from adds). The 0.3% nerf hits us a little as you can make out where the angle changes near the left side of the graph, but by far the biggest change is the AoE vengeance nerf. I personally think that the 'no vengeance from aoe abilities' will hurt us as well, but it'd only put a slight dent in the total values.
Basically, we've got about 4-5 weeks (predicted, at most) to get finished with LK25H and get mount, loot, titles, achievements. After that, it looks like it'll be back to going only with a group, or finding another tactic. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they simply don't want tanks soloing older content. Why the hell is it that DPS are allowed to do so, and don't get nerfed in that content (apparently warlocks, shamans and a few other DPS classes can solo it as well). These vengeance changes make little to no dent in current content, but they make a huge change to older content, especially fights like this. Maybe they're meant to make it 'require more skill' to manage. What they actually do is, or what they appear to do, is make it impossible to manage.
If I get time, I'll do some comparison graphs for our abilities based on the scaling values used to calculate their damage, healing, shielding, etc (and I'll be able to get actual values since the numbers used to calculate ability damage/healing/shielding are readily available).
Last edited by Chronalis; 2013-08-07 at 01:26 PM.
95% sure that the ghouls don't give vengeance at 90, mobs beneath a certain level (once again, 95% sure 80 fights the threshold) don't give vengeance, as they tend to have such high avoidance rates it could be possible to stack mobs who can't technically hit you and 'cheat' the system. It'd be no different to how we treat ghouls only not for GC.
Excluding that, the gap really shouldn't be that significant. Along side that, the buff to GC will drastically increase damage output on the encounter, since we either have 30,000 ghouls or at least 3 shamblers and 7 spirits.
As a whole, I'd be shellshocked if the vengeance changes had even the slightest influence on the LK farming. Not saying it's impossible, but considering how easy people are pushing it over now, it will take a lot more than what's coming in 5.4 to kill this.
EDIT: Won't have numbers until next week unfortunately, due to my tank being 'needed' for an achievement run. If anyone has damage numbers for adds, or a WoL parse of their zerg tactic, I can perform the calculations from that.
Boss DPS: 700K
Add DPS: 100K
Number of mobs: Boss+15
These are 'realistic' unmitigated damage values since vengeance is based upon that. They're still guesses, but I figure they're good guesses;
You can see that the graph is still scaling more favourably for 5.3, but it still adds up to a 61% reduction in vengeance gained.
I'll get to work on the vengeance-ability graphs later today. Since I'll probably be killing LK25H again later this afternoon, I'll also have a video of it, and thus I can do a graph based on damage-in to compare current vengeance with 5.4 vengeance (since I can have a 'damage TPS' graph visible from Recount, work out rough unmitigated damage from that, and then work values from there). I can also attempt to draw a graph for DPS out based upon the vengeance change AND the GC change (again, I'll have a realtime DPS graph from recount). Likelyhood is I won't draw it 'per second', but instead just draw it based upon 30-60 second intervals. I could use WoL, but I figure that I'd prefer to do things my own way.
Essentially, I'll have some graphs based on actual values later on today or tomorrow.
Last edited by Chronalis; 2013-08-07 at 07:49 PM.
Honestly.. looking at Asians that are soloing it on some funny classes like shamans or priests.. I don't think if soloing it on lvl90 will be a must-do-as-prot matter.
Got my 541 Zerat last week, gave it a shot today. Got to halfway of T2 before failing on my first attempt. Atm 534ilvl, probably will be easy doable at 540-545.
And about formulas.
First of all, I expect mobs to be ordered descending in their dps. What do I mean. I can't imagine situation that LK spawns dozen ghouls before shambler, and ghouls as first have 80% vengeance multiplier and 12th shambler 10% multiplier (very "lets say" values). Thus few thoughts below.
For lvl90 nothing but shamblers and boss matter. Ghouls dmg is somewhere around 0, they are just source of GC procs. Usually I'm taking berserked shamblers on my back and ghouls in front of me - 2in1 win. Btw seems to me there is 5 or 3 level difference cap, over which mobs are not giving vengeance. Would need a confirmation, almost sure I saw that number in some blue post ages ago, but at 1am after 4hrs of raiding cba to find it now.
I have no experience in soloing it on lvl80, but if old instances won't be affected with 50%hp vengeance cap, they will be able to do it. Dmg done by ghouls compared to their level and hp is significant enough. In case of 50%hp cap at 25HC, they will be unable to solo it (as mentioned few posts back, I'm keeping 1% for some fanatic guy that will do it with 70k vengeance thanks to GC boost).
I'm bit affraid about my army of 85 paladins. At 85 ghouls give some vengeance (had a chance to check it today, 1 ghouls is around 1k vengeance when pulled alone - wiped LK and ghoul alive left on the platform), but insignificant compared to boss with shamblers. It is possible that it will need more gear, but should be doable. I'm not rly affraid about AoE nerf. Usualy I'm at around 250k vengeance (on my lvl85 palas) before defile, and around 280k in defile + winter (keep in mind next and next shamblers berserking 6mins after their spawn).
Last edited by Michalus; 2013-08-07 at 11:37 PM.
Hey guys I just have a few questions about soloing it at level 85 as a prot pally (425 ILVL):
First off, does anyone have a macro that will automatically target ice spheres first, then the lich king if there are no ice spheres alive? I thought i saw one but i cant seem to find it now.
How long should i keep the adds alive from P1? like should i kill them at the end of P2?
actually thats all the questions i have, but any other tips for soloing it at 85 would be appreciated!
/tar Ice Sphere
after ive hit that a 1-3 times really quick i use
/tar The Lich King
/cast Crusader strike
aka. judgement is only for sphere during transition, so i see sphere. klick the judge one, then CS one (the last one you can use throughout the entire fight, just move that macro to where you normally have CS
Empty Drinking Horn is just a myth, I no longer believe in its existence.
You can use both or just AS one. Tbh with couple dozens of adds, AS will be shining all way long after P1 end.Code:/tar Ice /cast Avenger's Shield /tar The /tar Ice /cast Judgment /tar The
Soloing it at 85 is easiest with zerg-tactic. Depending on your gear, make P1 longer for vengeance (but be careful, if you will reach vengeance cap and shamblers will keep berserking, it's sometimes a wipe when youll get a parry from LK). You keep adds from P1 till you'll be killed by Fury of Frostmourne. Tanking P1 should take place on stairs to throne or on top of the throne, to avoid bugging roleplay and need to kill all adds before Tirion will call the Light for help.
More tips in my post from page #10: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21720282
Most important tip: Be sure your shield have at least 50/100 durability, to be safe just repair yourself after entering the instance - yesterday wiped because my shield got broken halfway T2.
Last edited by Michalus; 2013-08-08 at 04:22 PM.
Hey michalus, do you have any screenshots/videos showing where on the stairs to stand so it won't bug? I tried taking it up to the top once, but still got shot in the air from the shadow traps. I'd very much like to avoid the fight bugging out, as the last two weeks I've gone back in a killed the adds, but have to nuke lich king down from 40% or so (for some reason he starts healing after I release and run back).
edit: The last two weeks I've been using a strat someone mentioned earlier in the thread where you kite them around the outside of the ring. When I did that they wouldn't reengage when I released and ran back, but the roleplay would still bug.