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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    If it's your armory in your sig - you're missing focused shield / focused wrath ghyph. You'll run out of trash before end of T1 this way. You wont get dps then.
    More GC procs = more HoPo, bigger uptime on SoTR, less dmg taken.
    You can always try to post some logs of your attempts. Hard to say where you do something wrong.

    Honestly I have no idea why ppl bless EF so hard. I believe it's doable even without any L45 talent. Healing from SoI goes way into overheal anyway. Maybe matter of habits or dunno, I always prefered SS over EF and had no bigger problems with killing it with SS.
    Sure it's doable with SS, but I'm trying to help someone who's clearly having trouble and it's just facts that EF hps is higher than SS hps.

  2. #142
    Pandaren Monk Sunnydee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    If it's your armory in your sig - you're missing focused shield / focused wrath ghyph. You'll run out of trash before end of T1 this way. You wont get dps then.
    More GC procs = more HoPo, bigger uptime on SoTR, less dmg taken.
    You can always try to post some logs of your attempts. Hard to say where you do something wrong.

    Honestly I have no idea why ppl bless EF so hard. I believe it's doable even without any L45 talent. Healing from SoI goes way into overheal anyway. Maybe matter of habits or dunno, I always prefered SS over EF and had no bigger problems with killing it with SS.

    Its my armory correct. but i change glyphs maybe 10 times a day depending on what i do:P (i play ALOT) ^^

    i always use FS and FW, il post logs next time i give it a go. wont be for a few days due to annoyed of it haha

  3. #143
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    Sure it's doable with SS, but I'm trying to help someone who's clearly having trouble and it's just facts that EF hps is higher than SS hps.
    So? SS is far more stability, fuck "hps" especially as a tank soloing 80 content. And a lot less of a headache to micromanage.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 12:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    im on a mental breakdown on this crap.. i dont get it. im either dying from RNG or lack of dps.. im pulling my hair out here.. literally.
    You haven't actually described a problem at all. Perhaps you should sleep and come back refreshed.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    So? SS is far more stability, fuck "hps" especially as a tank soloing 80 content. And a lot less of a headache to micromanage
    You only need to reapply EF every 30 seconds, same as SS, so not really anything more to micromanage. What I do not understand however is how EF can be higher HPS than SS. I have not double checked but afaik the HoT part of EF do not scale with BoG stacks.
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  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You only need to reapply EF every 30 seconds, same as SS, so not really anything more to micromanage. What I do not understand however is how EF can be higher HPS than SS. I have not double checked but afaik the HoT part of EF do not scale with BoG stacks.
    The HoT does scale with BoG, quite easy to test ingame. Coupled with the buff that causes self-cast EF to be 100% more effective and it easily outstrips SS in terms of raw healing. In regards to the stability I'd argue that EF is better for that too when you're playing without a healer, simply because it ticks at twice the speed SS does - if your ss shield drops you have to wait 6s to refresh a new one whereas EF is ticking every 3s for more than the new SS shield would be. Unless you're going to be spiked down between EF ticks or you have a healer healing you making EF overheal then it seems to me like it's a clear choice.

    Obviously I use SS in raids because when you're playing with healers damage absorbed > damage healed.

  6. #146
    Okay, the cata version of EF did not scale with BoG, never bothered testing this in MoP. In that case yes, EF should give about 30-40% more healing than SS~
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

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  7. #147
    Done some napkin maths about it since I became curious. Apply a multiplication factor of 13.86 to EF values (*3 for 3 holy power, *2 for the bonus healing to self, *2.31 for BoG at my mastery level)

    At my standard, no vengeance spell power EF should heal me for 508 + 5.85% of spell power, so 505 + 963 = 1468. Apply the EF factors and we're left with 20388.
    SS at the same stats will absorb 343 + (1.17*spellpower), so 343 + 19265 = 19608.

    How about 100k AP then (50k spellpower)?
    EF -> (508 + 2925)*13.86 = 47581
    SS -> 343 + 58500 = 58843

    Let's go insane and suggest 1M AP then (500k spellpower)
    EF -> (508 + 29250)*13.86 = 412445
    SS -> 343 + 585000 = 585343

    Can see the SS is scaling slightly better than EF is, but then we need to remind ourselves that EF ticks twice as fast as SS does, so even at 1 million+ vengeance it still outheals it.

  8. #148
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    Done some napkin maths about it since I became curious. Apply a multiplication factor of 13.86 to EF values (*3 for 3 holy power, *2 for the bonus healing to self, *2.31 for BoG at my mastery level)

    Can see the SS is scaling slightly better than EF is, but then we need to remind ourselves that EF ticks twice as fast as SS does, so even at 1 million+ vengeance it still outheals it.
    Right, but that means any one-point EFs or EFs without a full stack of BoG will overwrite the HoT if you use it for the initial heal.

    So really, unless you are literally only using EF for the HoT and basically hoping that you don't need any emergency direct heals when soloing it, your actual throughput's going to be a lot less.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Right, but that means any one-point EFs or EFs without a full stack of BoG will overwrite the HoT if you use it for the initial heal.

    So really, unless you are literally only using EF for the HoT and basically hoping that you don't need any emergency direct heals when soloing it, your actual throughput's going to be a lot less.
    This is true, a 3 point EF without BoG stacks would be slightly less effective than SS would be in that scenario.

    I find for me, personally, there isn't much to spike me on that fight anyway. Our healing is relatively smooth compared to a DKs so the "emergency scenario" where I need a WoG doesn't really come up. I either have enough hps to live through the tough bits or I don't. That's why I favour EF so I can soak defiles in p3 without caring about spiking too low to spirits and explosions.
    Last edited by Animma; 2013-06-22 at 02:10 PM.

  10. #150
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    I find for me, personally, there isn't much to spike me on that fight anyway. Our healing is relatively smooth compared to a DKs so the "emergency scenario" where I need a WoG doesn't really come up. I either have enough hps to live through the tough bits or I don't. That's why I favour EF so I can soak defiles in p3 without caring about spiking too low to spirits and explosions.
    Hmm, makes sense. The only reason I brought up "micromanagement" earlier, was simply that - you effectively can't WoG without a big penalty if you're using EF, so you have to decide whether the immediate heal is worth losing ticks, hence micromanagement. With SS you either refresh if the shield is running out or if you know the shield will be bigger, which is a lot less work to do.

  11. #151
    Just managed it on my Prot Paladin 505ilvl, could of done it better though. Tried many "tacts", I tried keeping as many adds up as possible (basically prolonged P1 for like 8 minutes), when I got to the 2nd transition I managed to get him down to 25% but then I died in the Frostmourne room due to that stupid "bug". So instead I did it the "traditional" way, ended up with about 1 minute left on the enrage, that last phase is horrible as a Prot Paladin (usually do this with a DK).

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 03:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    It is. Drudge Ghouls in P3 = often fail in frostmourne.
    You can always try to get rid of P3 by making P1 way longer (Im picking shitty weapon and dump all HoPo into WoG, basically I'm barely attacking him, just to stay alive). Get more adds, nuke like shit, release spirit in case of not enough dps to bring him down to 10% during T2 (around 480-490k dps = ~31M / ~65secs)
    Can you go into more detail on this tactic? I was under the impression you could only release and run back in if you get him to 10% not before it. How long do you stay in Phase 1 for?

  12. #152
    killed him for the first time last night 522 ilvl. Only issue I had was during the RP event at the end. It bugged out and tirions part never happened so i was never revived. Was able to contact a GM and somehow it all worked out.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Evoix View Post
    killed him for the first time last night 522 ilvl. Only issue I had was during the RP event at the end. It bugged out and tirions part never happened so i was never revived. Was able to contact a GM and somehow it all worked out.
    If this happens you can release and reenter the raid, when you go to LK's platform you need to kill the Shambler's and then he breaks out the ice, then the RP continues as normal and you kill LK.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    If this happens you can release and reenter the raid, when you go to LK's platform you need to kill the Shambler's and then he breaks out the ice, then the RP continues as normal and you kill LK.
    Worked for me the first time, but I went out of LK his range so he dropped combat.. when Tirion stole my kill in a different way : (

  15. #155
    Btw you can survive the fury of frostmourne if you use goak,ardent defender and DP so you can avoid the bug.
    Last edited by marinos; 2013-06-24 at 09:51 PM.

  16. #156

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    If this happens you can release and reenter the raid, when you go to LK's platform you need to kill the Shambler's and then he breaks out the ice, then the RP continues as normal and you kill LK.
    awesome for the info! It was my first kill so i didnt want to release haha, figured it would restart the fight.

  17. #157
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Btw, I found a way to avoid roleplay bugging out. When LK kills you with Fury, Horrors move to their original spawn positions. If they are far enough from Tirion, RP does not bug at all.
    So, I just kite LK around outer edge of the platform (part that falls down after Quake), and all the Horrors spawn there. When RP starts, Horrors move away and stand somewhere in the air, Tirion breaks free and you don't have to spend extra time running or killing those Horrors, since they don't re-engage unless you move close enough to them.
    Reminding people of how to avoid RP bug.
    Lethora, 100 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 92 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU

  18. #158
    Thanks for that Lethora, normally I am avoiding the bug with surviving Fury of Frostmourne.. but in some cases I had to pop those CD's due needing them for the last phase.

  19. #159
    Went through the trouble of registering and posting to thank everyone for their awesome tips and advice! It took me somewhere along the lines of 18 total attempts and multiple sub 20% wipes to get him down. I had to mess with Choice's formula a bit in order to get my kill (playing much more defensive during the 2nd transition and phase 3), but otherwise had absolutely no problems. However, one consistent problem I've encountered during every single one of my attempts is just the sheer amount of damage going out during transition phases, the first one isn't so bad (because you aren't blanketed so often) but the secound one is absolutely ruthless. I use Holy Avenger to cope but i still fall behind pretty consistently, advice for future pulls would be greatly apperciated (so i don't have to play so defensively during transitions). Finally I'm very happy that I was able to record my kill and alternative method, which I'll provide if anyone asks for it.


    Interestingly enough, during the RP all my ghouls and such went directly to the top of the throne and the rp played out perfectly with no problems, is this normal? Also to be quite honest, I wasn't quite sure i had killed all the ghouls when i got sucked into Frostmourne but i survived it perfectly fine, even though i was almost certain i had been hit by one of the spirits exploding, and thus had taken damage while in the sword. Chocie had eluded in the secound video posted that you can ignore the ghouls if you do the inside of the sword perfectly, and i clearly had failed, thus hinting that the ghouls don't always glitch the fight.
    Last edited by Cheekun; 2013-06-26 at 09:09 AM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekun View Post
    Went through the trouble of registering and posting to thank everyone for their awesome tips and advice! It took me somewhere along the lines of 18 total attempts and multiple sub 20% wipes to get him down. I had to mess with Choice's formula a bit in order to get my kill (playing much more defensive during the 2nd transition and phase 3), but otherwise had absolutely no problems. However, one consistent problem I've encountered during every single one of my attempts is just the sheer amount of damage going out during transition phases, the first one isn't so bad (because you aren't blanketed so often) but the secound one is absolutely ruthless. I use Holy Avenger to cope but i still fall behind pretty consistently, advice for future pulls would be greatly apperciated (so i don't have to play so defensively during transitions). Finally I'm very happy that I was able to record my kill and alternative method, which I'll provide if anyone asks for it.


    Interestingly enough, during the RP all my ghouls and such went directly to the top of the throne and the rp played out perfectly with no problems, is this normal? Also to be quite honest, I wasn't quite sure i had killed all the ghouls when i got sucked into Frostmourne but i survived it perfectly fine, even though i was almost certain i had been hit by one of the spirits exploding, Unless i had somehow dodged the explosion I'm not quite sure how I survived.
    The explosions don't kill you, they hit for like 18k. It's ghouls being alive upstairs that kills you, some sort of anti-evade mechanic I have to assume. It doesn't always happen though (like 9 times out of 10 maybe) so if you still had ghouls up then you got lucky.

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