Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
... LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    A clear exploit used to get the fastest speed in the world, beating the old record by 2 minutes? You do realize you pretty much targeted yourself and your friends, begging to get banned and the record removed by Blizzard?

    And please, don't compare challenge modes to speedruns in Zelda and such. Nobody cares about Zelda. People do care about challenge modes, as there are actually something to be gained from it. Blizzard has shown their distaste to exploits like these before.
    Banned for what exactly? Please show me the Terms of Service we broke. Also I'd bet my life on Zelda having a bigger following than WoW CMs considering there are frequent Zelda streams, some of which have 20k+ viewers which WoW almost never has, and not to mention Zelda has been out FAR LONGER than WoW.

  2. #162
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    2,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    My point is that, I assume, every competent group is getting the buff and using invis pots/belts to get through the room having already ran a normal mode to get the buff. The buff is a major DPS boost, I believe it did a solid 15% of my DPS, but I don't know of anyone to actually pull that room (maybe the last pack) in the CM to have access to the to the buff. Surely, this falls into the same realm as getting a buff from one instance/run to be used in another, which is at the end of the day what all this exploit talk is about.
    Not quite, the issues about this is that they reset the instance and reducing the time.
    That falls under the category of consumables, you dont have to reset the run. (just like pots, invis pots, foods, flasks etc)

    Had they stacked that buff and kited troughout the dungeon without resetting and still beating it by 2 minutes, it would have been whole different ballgame.
    But they didnt...

  3. #163
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Xih View Post
    Did we reset the instance and do it in one pull after the buffs? I believe we did, you also can watch the video to see that. If you watch closely you will also see the timer for the run also resets when we reset it for the real run, but look closely, it's happens super fast so you miss it. Maybe you should explain your obscure logic behind 'true' time since you clearly don't understand how you are actually timed in challenge modes. I have to admit however, I should have put the lottery on since I was so damn lucky being able to randomly trap and hit my DPS buttons, because I clearly didn't understand the mechanic I used, I would have been a millionaire!
    My logic for true time is this:

    Enter the instance to start killing things and gaining buffs from things only obtainable in a instance: Is the true start time.
    Reset timer for the run while keeping something not obtainable normally in the instance (higher then normal stacks): Is the start of the challenge time you got.

    You have to add the two together because that reflects the true time you spent on your run. And not the time you spent doing the timed run. I know how timed runs work. I know how the game works. If you start doing a run to gain a buff then reset the run while keeping your buff you didn't really reset your run. You just reset the counter, and the "true" time is reflected in how long it took you to do the run and get the buff.

    I mean just look how a video of nothing but your run is longer then the time for you run. That should be an indicator to you that your true timed run isn't 10:16 because you yourself produced is longer then your run.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Neither consumables will add any noticeable time difference
    Invis Potions and Amber-CC would like a word with you.

  5. #165
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    There's nothing stopping others from doing this. Is running Scholo to get the transformation also considered an exploit?
    That logic just doesn't work. There is nothing stopping others from doing any exploit. Because exploits don't require a specific person just a certain set of circumstances. Anyone could create a paladin to bug out Yogg-0, anyone could have been an engineer to bug out Lich King. Just because anyone can do it doesn't stop it from being an exploit, it just means its an exploit anyone can do.

    The thing is if challenge mode is supposed to be about getting the fastest run of an instance, why is it okay to bring in things from two instances? You are doing something that can't be gained in one instance which sort of invalidates the spirit of doing a timed run of that instance. Since you aren't using things only from one state of that instance.

    A timed run should use only the things you can obtain in the instance you are running. And not things you can obtain then reset.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 02:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by makkk View Post
    and this is exactly why they wont fix it.
    They can easily purge the times you know. Just reset all times for the instance and people can repopulate them with the bug fixed.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They can easily purge the times you know. Just reset all times for the instance and people can repopulate them with the bug fixed.

    Oh yeah. That's is incredibly smart, I can already imagine the rage.
    Flawless - Go casual or go home.

  7. #167
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    Oh yeah. That's is incredibly smart, I can already imagine the rage.
    The only ones that would be raging are those that used the exploit. Why would you rage when you can just go and get your time again?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The only ones that would be raging are those that used the exploit. Why would you rage when you can just go and get your time again?
    Because they already did once legitimately? (assuming Blizzard labels this as not "legitimate", which I highly doubt they will - this isn't the only CM "exploit" that can skew times that still hasn't been changed) Maybe the people they did it with quit? Doesn't make their time invalid just because they can't jump right in and do it all over again.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/13/no...nge/#continued
    If at all feasible, we're not going to be adjusting the content itself. Persistent leaderboards are the backbone of the system, and if we make the dungeon easier, then your 14:13 time last week might actually be more impressive than my 14:05 clear today, but there would be no way of knowing that. It's conceivable that we might adjust the actual Gold/Silver/Bronze cutoff times slightly if it turns out we were badly off the mark with the tuning, but we're pretty confident in our numbers.
    Wiping times = NOT persistent. Backbones of a system? Pretty important.

  9. #169

  10. #170
    Reported for abusing a bug/exploit

  11. #171
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...q2-LxLI#t=600s

    Here's the Shadopan bug that everyone uses notice the 4/4 purified from one pack by clicking the add at the same time.

    I guess the question is should Blizzard fix the bugs and purge the leaderboards or just accept them and let everyone going for the WR use the bugs. I think the second choice is better.

  12. #172
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    Wiping times = NOT persistent. Backbones of a system? Pretty important.
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    As of now it's possible to beat that siege time without resetting the instance for additional stacks.. just saying

  14. #174
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerthfu View Post
    As of now it's possible to beat that siege time without resetting the instance for additional stacks.. just saying
    This is true.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    ...No. Not what I was saying at all. Because you don't fix the "exploit". You're at a very high level of play if you're getting times like this, you will find out about this and have no problem doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by makkk View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...q2-LxLI#t=600s

    Here's the Shadopan bug that everyone uses notice the 4/4 purified from one pack by clicking the add at the same time.

    I guess the question is should Blizzard fix the bugs and purge the leaderboards or just accept them and let everyone going for the WR use the bugs. I think the second choice is better.
    This right here. How much you want to bet there is probably an exploit in some form in at least half of the available challenge modes? A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away. And how much you want to bet they will continue to be found for the indefinite future? They going to wipe the boards every time? No.

    • Fix bugs, wipe leaderboards: No persistance. People have to go all over again and reestablish all of their times. Really not acceptable.
    • Fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: New groups are put at a disadvantage at getting top times, something I already mentioned in my first post here
    • Don't fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: People getting top times do the research and find the ways to use the "exploits". Everyone is capable of the same "exploits". I really don't see this as a problem, or at the very least it is preferable to the alternatives above. Unless an exploit appears that is only capable by a particular class or spec, which is not what is being discussed here.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away.
    If you look at all the top groups in CMs, none of them keep anything secrets. I know as a fact that I stream everything from mine and what I don't stream I fraps and try to upload asap. Aftermath group streamed everything, Novus Ordo Seclorum's group also stream everything etc etc. There's nothing secret in world time and if you ask anyone from any of the top group about their strategy they''ll most likely answer you without hesitation.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    As I said earlier.. I see nothing particularly exploitive about this, this is just clever, but.... this is not the spirit of a speed run. The spirit of a speed run is starting at the same start point and finding a shorter path to the end. You can't start at a more advanced point.. that completely defeats the whole concept.
    Nope, it's exactly in the spirit of a speed run... if you start the clock at the start of the first run and don't reset the clock when you reset the dungeon.

  18. #178
    Fantastic run.

    Double hunter is completely OP in challenge modes

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    ...No. Not what I was saying at all. Because you don't fix the "exploit". You're at a very high level of play if you're getting times like this, you will find out about this and have no problem doing it.



    This right here. How much you want to bet there is probably an exploit in some form in at least half of the available challenge modes? A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away. And how much you want to bet they will continue to be found for the indefinite future? They going to wipe the boards every time? No.

    • Fix bugs, wipe leaderboards: No persistance. People have to go all over again and reestablish all of their times. Really not acceptable.
    • Fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: New groups are put at a disadvantage at getting top times, something I already mentioned in my first post here
    • Don't fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: People getting top times do the research and find the ways to use the "exploits". Everyone is capable of the same "exploits". I really don't see this as a problem, or at the very least it is preferable to the alternatives above. Unless an exploit appears that is only capable by a particular class or spec, which is not what is being discussed here.


    I can't speak for everyone voicing against the tactics of resetting with the buff. If there is an exploit w.e. people will use it to get a better time. My only problem with this paticular bug / exploit is that you're essentially resetting your timer mid run. It's as if you're doing a 400M sprint, then reset your timer at the 100M mark.

    The instance would not have been that quick if you didn't have the buff from before the reset which took more TIME to get, saying it was done in 10:17m is false.

  20. #180
    I didn't read the whole topic but there are lots of so named "exploits" in challenge modes. I'll name some:

    - Scholomance, transforming in normal, using it on challenge
    - Shado-Pan Monastery, using one dead body 4 times
    - Siege of Niuzao Temple, same like the last one but with the gong
    - Scarlet Monastery, mind control
    - this one

    And I am not a pro at it so I am sure there are even more of them.

    The biggest one is the Scarlet Monastery one, because it needs one particular class, any setup doesn't contain DK cannot do that.
    I think these should NOT be removed. All of them are easily understandable and everyone can reproduce them if he/she wants to. They don't act like a typical exploit, they don't trivialize anything, they just give you a chance to do better time. Some of them, like for example this one actually makes the challenge even harder and more complex. Another example, we spent like 3 hours to do the DK mind control trick through the whole instance, then we said f*** it and did the instance on normal way (okay, we used the MC on the first boss) and oneshotted the gold.

    Long story short, these tricks give a chance for better times, everyone can use them, so they shouldn't be removed (or at least shouldn't be removed without ladder resets). Just Blizzard should post that they allow us to use them so everyone who wants to compete could use them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •