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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Replace the people that have no idea what they are doing (Pretty much all your dps). Or disband the guild and do LFR. Or replace the whole raid group with better players. Or try to teach them, but ofc people dont suddenly know how to play overnight, and although you may see an improvement you will spend much of your time wiping on bosses because of these people. The choice is yours.

  2. #22
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Guys, logs are usually super super wrong on Garajal, not just a little bit. I wouldn't do anything rash like tossing the DPS or healers based on them. OP, can you post a log that includes Feng?

    Also another thing worth noting is that the Voodoo Doll folks share damage with the tank, so if your tank is shitty with his cooldowns, your healers might not be capable of keeping everyone up. So there are factors that might not be related to healers or DPS. Your healer could simply be overwhelmed on the outside between doll damage and all the spirits your dps isn't able to kill.

    Unfortunately, the logs being partial for Garajal also means that, in addition to inaccurately telling people's performance, troubleshooting by them is difficult. Sonnillon posted some helpful information above, but it would help if you clarified exactly what is occuring. Are you getting overwhelmed with adds? Are dolled people just dying? Are your healers/DPS not making it out of the spirit realm in time?
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  3. #23
    The 4min 15 log looks like the time you ignored spirit realm as everyone died from the adds? I've checked the 2nd and 3rd one.

    On these, people are dying from voodoo dolls so it's either not enough healing on the linked people or the tanks not using cooldowns/active mitigation properly to reduce the damage that's passed on. You have two paladins and tanks can get hand of protection to stop damage for a bit, the boss focuses one tank anyway.

    I'm going to pick on the resto druid since I kind of know that class :P He needs to play a lot lot better. I can't see ANY lifebloom healing on the two logs I've looked at, this should be on 3 stacks and as close to 100% as possible. Swiftmend usage is very very low, 15 second cooldown so can get 4 a minute and looks like cast 6 one fight and 3 the other when the fights were 3:45 and 3:25.
    Can't see any Ironbark being cast, this is a 2 minute cooldown which reduces the damage the tank would take by 20%. He got voodoo dolls 3 times on one log and I can't see barkskin being used, this would've helped reduce personal damage.
    Benf is specced into Cenarion Ward, a 30 sec cooldown but I don't see this being used at all. Force of Nature, 1 mind cd, I can't see either but maybe I have to check logs differently for that. Nature's Vigil wasn't cast and could get 2/3 of these in per fight so cooldown usage needs to improve or just spec the passive options such as Soul of the Forest. But then would need him to swiftmend to get use of that anyway.
    I've not healed this on my druid but Wild Growth usage should be higher since there's aoe and a few people getting hit for most of the fight, this was hardly cast.

    It's difficult to be 100% since the logs are unreliable but I'm sure some of this would show if it was being done.

    I checked the Feng kill log and most of my points stand. 24 swiftmend in 9 mins, could have had 36. No lifebloom, no ironbark, no cooldowns, no barkskin.
    Last edited by stephenc87; 2013-02-19 at 05:37 PM. Reason: missed a bit

  4. #24
    Honestly it sounds like some or all of the raid members could stand some practice/experimentation time in LFR.

  5. #25
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    Trash players. Not much more I can say.

    Look at past logs, average dps is like 30k still. Bad players are bad.

    Infracted. Post constructively.
    Last edited by Elysia; 2013-02-19 at 11:22 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    Your DPS does seem to be very low.

    The way *I* would do it in normal is send the same 2 dps down constantly. I would definitely send the moonkin down, and maybe one of the hunters - they can go back down as soon as their timer runs out every time. If they get ahead of the add spawn, you can let one of them stay up. Alternate healers going down for mana regen. (send 2-3 people every time) Can't let your raid get behind on adds.

    Roll tank CDs the entire time they're tanking. It looks like you lost some people to voodoo dolls. Use hand of protection on tanks, also.

    Lust on the pull.

    When boss is at ~20-25%, stop sending people down and start rolling raid CDs (devotion aura, etc) and burn the boss down. Make sure tanks have CDs the entire time.
    This is pretty much what we do except we save lust for the last 30% or so. We use a hunter and warrior for spirit realm killings. We have our group stack in the centre and kill the adds in the spirit realm from the centre outwards. Every heal your healers cast in the spirit realm gives them a stacking mana regen buff as well so as long as they are rotating turns in the spirit realm they shouldn't worry to much about burning through extra mana by aoe healing. The spirit adds hit harder in melee than they do at range which is why we stack in the centre and clear the centre of adds first. All of your dps need to be doing a minimum of around 45k, the more the better.

  7. #27
    Make a "priority list" of people going into spirit realm. This helps your sanity finding out which people to send in while doing your own rotation right.
    If the first people are voodoo dolled you use the next one in the list.
    I'd make it like this:
    Balance Druid
    Shadow Priest
    Fire Mage (make him take nether tempest and multi dot in there)
    Hunter
    Hunter
    Feral Druid

    For healers you just rotate them around as much as possible.

    One of the most important parts is to not take every single totem. This means the first 50 sec you should just dps. Then send 3 ppl in there. Make the healer go out as soon as possible while the dps finish off stuff in there. Stop taking totems at 30%.

  8. #28
    Since Blood DK is my specialty, I'll be examining him.

    CD rotation is abysmal. Looking through three of those fights, I see exactly ONE use of Vampiric Blood. I see him facetanking with no CD and no Blood Shield. He should stop using Remorseless Winter, as it doesn't affect anything that fight. The spirits are immune.

    What he needs to do is when he is tanking, make sure he uses Bone Armor the minute he takes aggro, and if that falls off, use Icebound Fortitude immediately to keep his Voodoo Dolls from being nuked. When he is not actively tanking, he should be rolling Rune Tap and Vampiric Blood to keep himself healer neutral. I would say Use More Death Strikes, but that is my answer to everything, and Euliat hates it when I advocate indiscriminate spamming.

    DKs should remember their ABCs: Always Be Cooldowning.
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  9. #29
    Their problem is that they have low dps. and to be honest at their gear im not sure if they will pull minimum dps required for gara'jal even with proper reforge/enchant/caps.

  10. #30
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Stop taking totems at 30%.
    Bad advice. If people stop taking totems by the time they reach 20% there will be lot of spirits in there which will cause pointless damage to the raid. If you go down around 25%ish for the the last and "final" totem, mop up the realm then it will be much more easier later on, when he starts hammering hard on tanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Bad advice. If people stop taking totems by the time they reach 20% there will be lot of spirits in there which will cause pointless damage to the raid. If you go down around 25%ish for the the last and "final" totem, mop up the realm then it will be much more easier later on, when he starts hammering hard on tanks.
    It is not bad advice it just depends on your raid group.

    Is your DPS lacking or is your healing lacking and this varies from raid group to raid group.

    When we first downed him (admittedly a fair while ago now) we 2 healed it and stopped taking totems at 30%.

    Our healers managed to keep everyone alive and we won (just beat the enrage timer).

  12. #32
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Well our first kill if I recall was just seconds before enrage and it was called out around 22% that last totem, go clean the place up. As usually it was asked or people said how many spirits was left in there and then our "top dogs" rogue/lock went down if they could and mopped the place up. But if you are starting the 2 healer thing, then I highly suggest keeping the realm clean, even in the end.

    Besides, if people come out, they have a nice buff for extra DPS as well.

    But you are correct that it will depend on group Quil. But the healing/DPS seems to be their issue so best just would be keeping the realm clean as the overwhelming shadow damage doesn't wipe the raid if too many spirits are up.

    I don't have any logs, as we killed it last year, so those are long erased. But we did around the same amount, lowest being I believe 40k in the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  13. #33
    3 heal it if you're not hitting the enrage. Find a way to make sure 2 dps 1 heal go in the spirit realm every time (having the 2 tanks calling it out works well since one of them will always be there, but they have to be able to see who has voodoo dolls) or get the addon for it. Make sure the healers are overhealing down there to keep increasing the buff to the DPS and to their mana regen. They should be spamming heals until they hit their button to leave.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mctriple View Post
    3 heal it if you're not hitting the enrage. Find a way to make sure 2 dps 1 heal go in the spirit realm every time (having the 2 tanks calling it out works well since one of them will always be there, but they have to be able to see who has voodoo dolls) or get the addon for it. Make sure the healers are overhealing down there to keep increasing the buff to the DPS and to their mana regen. They should be spamming heals until they hit their button to leave.
    Maybe you should read the OP before posting generic (useless) advice.

  15. #35
    We downed him yesterday. After only one try on top of that.
    I'm not sure what we did so differently... we had some higher DPS with us (3 were above 65k and the rest between 55k-60k) and I guess nobody screwed up in the Spirit world.
    The tip to get in, Rake each mob and get out was also very useful. I raked each, Mangled them once or twice and that was enough to kill them.

    And guess what, we even managed to down the Spirit Kings after 2 tries too :-)
    So yeah... the low DPS of some members was the problem indeed.

    I would like to thank you all for the tips. It greatly helped and I told the lower DPS members to check out the basics (capping Hit and Exp, etc)

  16. #36

  17. #37
    I saw 6 tries that is nothing. Just keep going and you will see a improvement sooner or later. I had over 150 wipes on him in Hc mode first week of progression

  18. #38
    Congrats on the kill.

  19. #39

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    The way *I* would do it in normal is send the same 2 dps down constantly. I would definitely send the moonkin down, and maybe one of the hunters - they can go back down as soon as their timer runs out every time. If they get ahead of the add spawn, you can let one of them stay up. Alternate healers going down for mana regen. (send 2-3 people every time) Can't let your raid get behind on adds.
    When you say "send the same two dps down constantly" I assume you are having them go in. Kill Spirits, Come out, and then DPS Gara'jal for the 30 ish seconds that they have the DPS buff before going back in? In which case, you are losing dps time in the spirit realm, since the second Totem usually pops around the time they are coming out of the Spirit Realm.

    I would think you would want someone actively calling out DPS to go in, and not have the same DPS who just came out going back in immediately, since that effectiely wastes the spirtual innervation buff. 2 DPS go in, Kill spirits, come out, and dps the boss, while a second two go in and kill spirits, If you are doing it right, your main 4 dps should always have uptime on Spiritual Innervation while dpsing Gara'jal. If you dont, you likely wont make the enrage.

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