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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogait View Post
    Hello guys,

    I'd love to know if someone can help me out on this, because my guild is having problems killing this boss for some reason. We're constantly wiping around 10%-20% and I think the problem is somewhere and we can't identify to solve the problem and land the kill.

    We tried once, knowing that would be impossible to kill him, to use heroism at 15% and see how far we could go before wiping, which landed us a 7.8% try.
    After that for some reason, we can't reach that % because either people die from random stuff (Huddle, adds) or they DC, or we don't have the same comp for next time (losing some ranged for example) and having to go with 7 melee's...

    Anyway, I'll leave here some of our best logs and if you could have a look and see if u find any mistake we're doing, I'd be glad

    25-02-2013
    [1] - link
    27-02-2013
    [2] - link
    [3] - link
    [4] - link

    We've doing this:

    Until wave with 4 adds - All dotters use their dots on adds and focus boss
    Wave with 4 adds - Our Arcane Mages(2) + Hunters(2) + WW Monk join the adds
    Wave with 6 adds - All melee's join the Adds
    Wave with 7 adds - Everyone join the adds

    And I think this is the problem, because some times we've the boss at 20% on 7th wave and from there, boss don't lose any HP (around 1.5% - 2% between submerges), which some times wipe us there.


    About our gear, we were forced to merge with another guild to keep our 25man raids, since we're a national Guild and it's quite hard to find decent recruits these days and they have lower gear than us. (We were 25man 13/16 HC and they were 10man 9/16 HC) but not using this as excuse!

    Our we're concerned off is that we've less than 13 raiding ours to kill this and we want the Cutting Edge from this boss, but we're doing something wrong and we're not seeing it and not capable of adjust to land the kill.

    If you find something relevant on our logs, I'd be really glad and maybe we can tip someone

    Thanks,
    ~ Pandamorium
    You're probably spreading your dps too thin.
    Here's the rule of thumb for Sha P2 -
    Never leave more DPS'ers on the adds than is neccessary to kill them before next wave.
    Think about that for a second - up till 3 adds, you only have multidotters keep stuff up on them and focus the boss.
    When one more add is added to the mix, you add FIVE fulltime DPS'ers to make sure ONE add more dies. That's without concidering passive cleave like diseases, tank cleaves, you get the idea.
    Basicly, you're ramping up WAY too fast. You don't need to "assign" people to get on the adds. If they die quick enough, then good. If they don't, then ask people to switch ~5 seconds before sha submerges, and ask another person to help on next wave.

    Also - Melee are fine for this fight. I don't know why you would want to avoid having them in. You gain nothing from being ranged on this fight (apart from a slightly higher uptime when he re-emerges far away). Spouts can't go on melee, meaning it's even beneficial to have alot of them (as long as there's +8 ranged targets, if the mechanic is the same as in the "old" days still).

    Along with that, melee provides raid CD's most ranged do not - rallying, devotion aura (hand of purity, too), AMZ, Ancestral guidance (when aoeing +5 mobs that thing just heals the entire raid without an issue).


    But back on topic of your raid - they're not really underperforming, as such - matching
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3527&e=4179
    (your 17:22 attempt, started when lust was popped, ended when people started dying after wave number 12)
    with:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7674&e=8334
    (Our kill from yesterday, started/stopped at same points)
    You can see that our far superior geared raid (had everything on farm for 6-7 weeks) is only pulling 170K dps more than you.
    So essentially, it has to be a performance issue. Someone panics, dies to a huddle. Tank doesn't taunt in time, get gibbed, game over (we use 4 because of this, just to be on the safe side. Have the DPS to make up for it, can't be bothered doing a +15 min pull just to see a tank miss a taunt at 15%).

    How do you deal with spouts, Tank debuffs, and Huddle?

  2. #82
    Dreadlord Ogait's Avatar
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    Basically I've made one Aura to warn me everytime the boss is casting Waterspout so I can start running before "Waterspout is on me!" appears and that aura stays if I've the debuff.

    About the tanking debuffs, we'se 3 tanks (2 Blood DKs + Monk) and they taunt when the debuff falls I think. I am not 100% sure about that, but I'll ask when one of them come online and post here what they're doing.

    About Huddle, since we've only 1 paladin, we pops HoP on the weakest player (normally people without Cauterize/Purgatory) and we heal the rest. When we've 2+ healers on Huddle, we ask for external CD's. like totems from enhancement/Elemental Shamans, Tranquility from druids and if really needed, our balance help on heal.

    I think our problem is around the way we manage the adds, because we had tries where we manage to survive till 20% and from there we don't take any % of the boss for some time and we start wiping because of that.

    - Do you spot anything wrong on the logs?
    - When do you pop your Lust on 2nd Phase? After 1st Emerge? After 1st Huddle?
    I think that's another problem we've. We're popping our lust after 1st emerge and sometimes we've 3-4 players with Huddle for 10 seconds doing nothing!
    - Should we stack up the entire raid for AoE healing or Waterspout becomes against to be an issue?
    Last edited by Ogait; 2013-02-28 at 04:43 PM.
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  3. #83
    The Patient Grogar's Avatar
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    So I am currently trying to kill him on 10, and have been getting to around about 30% with around 20 wipes on P2. I am finding Thrill of the Hunt and Glaive toss my preferred talents, barrage really doesn't seem to be that nice for the adds until the very end if you can use GT intelligently I don't feel there it's worth the DPS loss on Sha and TotH makes multi-shotting the adds as they pass the boss easy as pie. As I said I have never made it past a wave of 4 adds so I may end up changing to Barrage once we start hitting bigger packs if its vastly better.

    Have you guys been putting frost traps down on the boss to help with the cleaving? My thoughts behind this were to keep the adds ontop of the boss for longer for my MS and the melee's cleaves, meaning you dont have to decicate DPS to early to the adds as there is more passive DPS going onto them. If anyone has tried this I was wondering if Entrapment works on them? Although I highly doubt it does.

    Here's my armory, fairly sucky gear I know (Didn't really raid this content until a 3 weeks ago) but is there anything I am doing that is obviously wrong? My DPS is behind the rest of my raid group, I know that once we get later into the fight my AoE will be a huge help and my gear is going to hold me back but I still feel something is wrong as my single target is around 20k behind everyone else.

    I'm using the Aura's from this thread for Waterspout and Champion and they are pretty awesome, helping me a load with avoiding the spout tbh. And my entire raid group is using VuhDo's click functions to make clicking on a member on your VuhDo frames throw the ball to them. We also have VuhDo setup to change the targets who have the Huddle in Fear's raid plates to bright red so that the ball can be passed around pretty much instantly.

    Phase 2 seems fairly easy after all the hype I read about it, seems like just working on getting used to it, not being like 'AMG ITS ALL BLUE PANIC' and then getting a try when no one brain-farts is going to result in a kill sooner or later. Any help on my Character or anything would be amazing though, really fancy a kill of this baddy pre-5.2.
    Last edited by Grogar; 2013-02-28 at 09:34 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogait View Post
    Basically I've made one Aura to warn me everytime the boss is casting Waterspout so I can start running before "Waterspout is on me!" appears and that aura stays if I've the debuff.

    About the tanking debuffs, we'se 3 tanks (2 Blood DKs + Monk) and they taunt when the debuff falls I think. I am not 100% sure about that, but I'll ask when one of them come online and post here what they're doing.

    About Huddle, since we've only 1 paladin, we pops HoP on the weakest player (normally people without Cauterize/Purgatory) and we heal the rest. When we've 2+ healers on Huddle, we ask for external CD's. like totems from enhancement/Elemental Shamans, Tranquility from druids and if really needed, our balance help on heal.

    I think our problem is around the way we manage the adds, because we had tries where we manage to survive till 20% and from there we don't take any % of the boss for some time and we start wiping because of that.

    - Do you spot anything wrong on the logs?
    - When do you pop your Lust on 2nd Phase? After 1st Emerge? After 1st Huddle?
    I think that's another problem we've. We're popping our lust after 1st emerge and sometimes we've 3-4 players with Huddle for 10 seconds doing nothing!
    - Should we stack up the entire raid for AoE healing or Waterspout becomes against to be an issue?
    IDK about 25 man specifically, but if you're using a heal-thru-huddle strat, might want to just clear that one huddle after the first emerge during bloodlust. Also, I agree with Draco, you're putting way too many people on adds way too soon. I know multi-dotting becomes fairly difficult after 3 mobs, but there's no need to add 5 people on for 1 more add. I wouldn't stack for waterspouts if people are getting gibbed by them at all in your current raid, but people need to be relatively close.

  5. #85
    Dreadlord Ogait's Avatar
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    It's down!

    Thanks a lot!
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogait View Post
    It's down!

    Thanks a lot!
    grats bro, just in time for 5.2

  7. #87
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    So, we actually killed it tonight. About 15 hours of progression, but less than 4 with our ideal comp due to work/kids/etc. I'm surprised, tbh. Phase 2 was a joke in 10 man (this late in progression, at least), the last time we were there in any sort of serious fashion we would be wiping around 35%, tonight with some practice on huddles, and some CDs for the waves of 6 adds, we had a 15% attempt, a 20% attempt, an 8% attempt, and then we killed it.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    So, we actually killed it tonight. About 15 hours of progression, but less than 4 with our ideal comp due to work/kids/etc. I'm surprised, tbh. Phase 2 was a joke in 10 man (this late in progression, at least), the last time we were there in any sort of serious fashion we would be wiping around 35%, tonight with some practice on huddles, and some CDs for the waves of 6 adds, we had a 15% attempt, a 20% attempt, an 8% attempt, and then we killed it.
    Grats on the kill and grats on the 1337 posts.

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  9. #89
    Finally killed it tonight. It actually died so fast we didn't get time to use our 2nd heroism in phase 2.

    Information in this thread and the thread below helped a lot. Especially finding the very centre of the room to group the adds up properly.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ght=sha+heroic

    We had a 5% and a 3% wipe on the 2 attempts before the kill tonight and we'd already had two 1% wipes before today.
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2013-03-05 at 12:06 AM.

  10. #90
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    Yeah, we didn't get to use a 2nd hero either. We killed it just as the 2nd wave of 6 adds spawned. I was actually surprised because I was on add duty and ball tossing so I was focusing on that and didn't even realize he was that low. I guess we had lots of cleave damage and an arcane mage tunneling the boss.

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