Freezing things in 5.2 and beyond

[Craif]

Hey fellow mages!

I'm a casually raiding frost mage who's really enjoying the spec and I'm crossing my fingers hoping it will remain viable in 5.2.
However reading through these forum I can't help but notice our poor scaling and here and there I noticed people mentioning us "capping out haste".
This makes me rather worried and I seek answers to a few questions:
1. At what hastelevel on gear do we reach our "hastecap"?
2. Will we at any point switch frost armor for molten armor?
3. How much worse do we scale than mastery/fire?

If you know the answer to any of these questions or generally want to discuss frost scaling, this is the place!
Thanks in advance

[Mastamage]

I'm going to redirect you to the [5.2] Standardized DPS Testing thread that myself and a number of other mages are using to test each spec on the PTR in preparation for 5.2. There, you will find many frost builds, as well as fire and arcane (which seems to be the main focus).
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ting-Come-Help!

[jtmzac]

The hastecap your most likely referring to is 100% haste that causes frostbolt to be a 1 second cast. As for how much haste you need it will depend on your race and trinkets.

Swapping armour's is a possibility but since frost armour gives haste which is multiplicative I think we're more likely to pick gear without haste and keep using frost armour.

Fire's design means it scales very exponentially and no other spec will be able to keep up with it unless its nerfed or specs falling behind are buffed.

[Icesage]

one thing i was wondering is the glyph of water elemental in 5.2 is it worth it?? i guess it is useful still becuz its casting while moving and it will live longer but really....i only used it so i knew my WE is near for freeze. really i just think they should just put this into the pet already.. and ya freeze will still get FoF's if it freeze's the target in place so its still going to be nice to X mobs that can be frozen in place or in pvp.

[Oxyra]

Haste cap for a caster is always when your spells hit exactly 1.00 cast time. >Important stuff to know if you're a Troll and use Berserking in Lust or something, you can go over your haste cap, wasting the CDs.
Your minimum GCD, even with 1000% haste, is 1sec GCD, so spells might only have a cast time of 0.3 seconds (see Alysrazor flying), but you still can only cast one per second because of the GCD.

DoT classes gain benefits of haste past this cap point, but haste still becomes undervalued because of the GCD.

[Craif]

The hastecap your most likely referring to is 100% haste that causes frostbolt to be a 1 second cast. As for how much haste you need it will depend on your race and trinkets.

Swapping armour's is a possibility but since frost armour gives haste which is multiplicative I think we're more likely to pick gear without haste and keep using frost armour.

Fire's design means it scales very exponentially and no other spec will be able to keep up with it unless its nerfed or specs falling behind are buffed.

I play panda so I lack the mini-lust or goblin haste, and I am more considering the cap where haste's value greatly diminishes which I suppose would be where haste + frost armor + BL/meta gem proc put FB at 1s?
Great point however about gearing change rather than armor change.

You may indeed be right that fire will trump all, but I hope that's in 5.4 rather than 5.2 so I can keep enjoying frost a little longer.

On another note I have been checking the Standardized dps-thread but most people only discuss their rotations and sometimes stat prio but I haven't seen anyone do the math about at which point haste-scaling becomes a problem for frost only that the problem exists.

[jtmzac]

one thing i was wondering is the glyph of water elemental in 5.2 is it worth it?? i guess it is useful still becuz its casting while moving and it will live longer but really....i only used it so i knew my WE is near for freeze. really i just think they should just put this into the pet already.. and ya freeze will still get FoF's if it freeze's the target in place so its still going to be nice to X mobs that can be frozen in place or in pvp.

Some of the rooms where you fight bosses are huge and you have to move your elemental which is just a dps loss. Since the evocation heal has been reduced to 20% I'm just going to use the water elemental glyph instead.

There is barely anything you can freeze in ToT. Lots of the adds look like they can be frozen but they can't.

I play panda so I lack the mini-lust or goblin haste, and I am more considering the cap where haste's value greatly diminishes which I suppose would be where haste + frost armor + BL/meta gem proc put FB at 1s?
Great point however about gearing change rather than armor change.

You may indeed be right that fire will trump all, but I hope that's in 5.4 rather than 5.2 so I can keep enjoying frost a little longer.

On another note I have been checking the Standardized dps-thread but most people only discuss their rotations and sometimes stat prio but I haven't seen anyone do the math about at which point haste-scaling becomes a problem for frost only that the problem exists.

Frost should be fine in 5.2. 5.3-5.4 we'll have to see.

The tricky thing about haste is because of the legendary gem and trinket procs etc. You won't actually stop stacking haste as soon as you can hit 100% when everything is up/proc'd. The easiest way to tell what sort of haste we'll be trying for is with simcraft which is why people haven't talked about it much.

[Sinndor]

If you reach haste cap what i alredy reach in 5.1 just use glyph of Ice Veins or how is it call. You will get 20% more dmg for 20% haste. Haste cap is 25% raid buffed. Since this 25% any haste isnt worth anymore becous you will get under global cd whit BL and Ice Veins. So pick glyph for extra 20% dmg and i am telling it is huge dng boost with bloodlost.

[scuac]

If you reach haste cap what i alredy reach in 5.1 just use glyph of Ice Veins or how is it call. You will get 20% more dmg for 20% haste. Haste cap is 25% raid buffed. Since this 25% any haste isnt worth anymore becous you will get under global cd whit BL and Ice Veins. So pick glyph for extra 20% dmg and i am telling it is huge dng boost with bloodlost.

25% is not the haste cap. 25% haste raid bufffed is simply a breakpoint to decide whether to use or not the glyph of IV, but you continue to stack haste.