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  1. #21
    There are some nice variations for the opening rotations here that will work nicely depending on gear setups and procs (depending on how many proc items you have) and could be adjusted accordingly.

    The question of refreshing dots shows what class I used to play :P. Anyone have an addon recommendation that shows the FS ticks better than ElvUI? I remember watching for them as affliction to optimize rotations but dont remember what I used to have.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    There are some nice variations for the opening rotations here that will work nicely depending on gear setups and procs (depending on how many proc items you have) and could be adjusted accordingly.

    The question of refreshing dots shows what class I used to play :P. Anyone have an addon recommendation that shows the FS ticks better than ElvUI? I remember watching for them as affliction to optimize rotations but dont remember what I used to have.
    If you're particularly worried about it, Spellflash works amazingly for tracking DoTs, since you basically don't have to even watch a timer. It just tells you when to recast for optimal DPS. I don't use it on my shaman, since I know the DPS rotation well enough for it to annoy me. But it's an absolute GODSEND for my DPS alts, especially my aff lock and spriest.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    If you're particularly worried about it, Spellflash works amazingly for tracking DoTs, since you basically don't have to even watch a timer. It just tells you when to recast for optimal DPS. I don't use it on my shaman, since I know the DPS rotation well enough for it to annoy me. But it's an absolute GODSEND for my DPS alts, especially my aff lock and spriest.
    I guess once I play ele a bit more, I wont have to worry about the rotation as much...

    I was curious about one thing. I noticed a lot yesterday while playing that I was getting LvB procs just after starting a LB cast. Is it worth it to stop casting the LB to hit the LvB proc or just finish the LB cast and hit the LvB proc as soon as I can afterwards?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    Actually, I do think you're quite wrong. Fire ele first is a DPS loss because he stands there the entire time until you hit flameshock. Not only that, you could be precasting a lightning bolt with your pot.

    Imo:
    1. Pot + LB (Pot is off GCD) 1.5 seconds before pull.
    2. FlS
    3. Ele
    4. SL
    5. LvB
    6. Ascend (+Lust if you're on lust duty, it's off GCD)
    7. LvB Spam

    I use PE, so I can't comment on EB placement. The middle part of yours with LvB > EB > SL is probably best if you're running EB. With the start above (assuming starting with 0 stacks), you should get a 7 stack fulm at almost exactly 5 seconds remaining on your first FlS, giving you a beautiful burst phase at the beginning.
    Fire ele will stand there 1-2 sec either way, when I say fire ele first it's 1 sec before pull, so I loose 1 sec....and I'm willing to bet all my gold that if you don't cast flame shock straight after fire ele that he will stand around longer.

    Theres no point even discussing that, instant cast after fire elemental is the only way to get the maximum out of fire elemental...you sau you want to cast an extra llighting bolt but you give up 1-2 extra lava bursts. What the hell is the point of getting a weak as cast in if I can do 5x as much dmg with putting a different in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    I guess once I play ele a bit more, I wont have to worry about the rotation as much...

    I was curious about one thing. I noticed a lot yesterday while playing that I was getting LvB procs just after starting a LB cast. Is it worth it to stop casting the LB to hit the LvB proc or just finish the LB cast and hit the LvB proc as soon as I can afterwards?
    No because you will force yourself on a global cooldown, isn't it always a loss to interupt a cast?

  5. #25
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    I guess once I play ele a bit more, I wont have to worry about the rotation as much...

    I was curious about one thing. I noticed a lot yesterday while playing that I was getting LvB procs just after starting a LB cast. Is it worth it to stop casting the LB to hit the LvB proc or just finish the LB cast and hit the LvB proc as soon as I can afterwards?
    ABC. Always Be Casting. Which means continue the LB and hit LvB after.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    ABC. Always Be Casting. Which means continue the LB and hit LvB after.
    Good thing to remember, this should help me tons =D

  7. #27
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Fire ele will stand there 1-2 sec either way, when I say fire ele first it's 1 sec before pull, so I loose 1 sec....and I'm willing to bet all my gold that if you don't cast flame shock straight after fire ele that he will stand around longer.

    Theres no point even discussing that, instant cast after fire elemental is the only way to get the maximum out of fire elemental...you sau you want to cast an extra llighting bolt but you give up 1-2 extra lava bursts. What the hell is the point of getting a weak as cast in if I can do 5x as much dmg with putting a different in there.
    You'll have to explain to me why it's the best way to get the max out of it, because that makes no sense to me. As long as you're casting as soon as the GCD is up, it shouldn't matter whether the next spell is cast or instant. And you'll also have to explain where I lose 1-2 LvBs, because I don't see that either.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    You'll have to explain to me why it's the best way to get the max out of it, because that makes no sense to me. As long as you're casting as soon as the GCD is up, it shouldn't matter whether the next spell is cast or instant. And you'll also have to explain where I lose 1-2 LvBs, because I don't see that either.
    Because:

    Imo:
    1. Pot + LB (Pot is off GCD) 1.5 seconds before pull.
    2. FlS
    This is where I would cast my first LvB
    3. Ele
    A tick of Flameshock here could have procced an extra LvB
    4. SL
    A tick of Flameshock here could have procced an extra LvB
    5. LvB
    6. Ascend (+Lust if you're on lust duty, it's off GCD)
    7. LvB Spam
    Basicly, for every cast you do while Lava Burst is on cooldown it has a chance to grant you an extra Lvb while using other spells. Granted if you get a LvB while you were planning to do Stormlash next you can delay the LvB for Stormlash because stormlash would cause your LvB to do more dmg.

    My point is that it doesn't matter weither Fire Ele is cast out of combat or not because he willl have the excact same uptime IF you cast an instant cast as soon your file ele spawns...because: Fire Elemental does NOT engage combat until a spell from you lands on the boss AFTER he spawned or you receive dmg yourself.

    So if you do a lighting bolt, stormlash or anything that doesn't do instant dmg on the boss after Fire Elemental is spawned he will just stand still untill you do dmg the boss.

  9. #29
    Casting a damage spell right after using the Fire ele makes sense to me to get the fire ele moving.

    Ele
    Pre-pot
    FS
    LvB

    Looks like a solid first 4 spells to me.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Destrudo View Post
    Casting a damage spell right after using the Fire ele makes sense to me to get the fire ele moving.

    Ele
    Pre-pot
    FS
    LvB

    Looks like a solid first 4 spells to me.
    Some seem to dissagree.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Some seem to dissagree.
    I mean I am new to Ele but I do understand that the Fire Ele does stand there until the first damage from you ticks or the first incomming damage is received so doing something to get the fire ele engaged in combat faster while not losing much uptime would be ideal in my book.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Because:



    Basicly, for every cast you do while Lava Burst is on cooldown it has a chance to grant you an extra Lvb while using other spells. Granted if you get a LvB while you were planning to do Stormlash next you can delay the LvB for Stormlash because stormlash would cause your LvB to do more dmg.

    My point is that it doesn't matter weither Fire Ele is cast out of combat or not because he willl have the excact same uptime IF you cast an instant cast as soon your file ele spawns...because: Fire Elemental does NOT engage combat until a spell from you lands on the boss AFTER he spawned or you receive dmg yourself.

    So if you do a lighting bolt, stormlash or anything that doesn't do instant dmg on the boss after Fire Elemental is spawned he will just stand still untill you do dmg the boss.
    1. You're forgetting that all of your procs from trinkets and your enchants are probably running at this point, and throwing in all those extra things can leave you with them dropping off before ascendance is over. Not only that, you're adding an extra tick in that doesn't exist. From ele to the first LvB is only 3 seconds (2 GCDs), which is one tick.
    2. Which is why you FlS FIRST, so that when he spawns, he's already running towards the target. He doesn't have to wait for a tick, the targeting knows when FlS is running on a target.
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  13. #33
    To solve the issue with Fele standing without attacking i open with:
    prepot + EB
    Fire ele ( LB lands that the Fele is actually already out, so he starts attacking whenever the travel time of LB is over)
    FS
    LvB
    SL (if i'm the 1st assigned to)
    ascendance and so on
    I open with EB cause usually trinkets (especially DMC one) procs 2-3 secs into the fight, and 3.2k int > 3.5 haste or mastery

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    1. You're forgetting that all of your procs from trinkets and your enchants are probably running at this point, and throwing in all those extra things can leave you with them dropping off before ascendance is over. Not only that, you're adding an extra tick in that doesn't exist. From ele to the first LvB is only 3 seconds (2 GCDs), which is one tick.
    2. Which is why you FlS FIRST, so that when he spawns, he's already running towards the target. He doesn't have to wait for a tick, the targeting knows when FlS is running on a target.
    With the Fire Ele spawning, and then FlS hitting, the initial damage will engage the Fire Ele correct? I think that is what he is trying to get at is using the instant cast spell after using the fire ele will cause it to move into combat rather than having to wait the cast time of the next spell.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    1. You're forgetting that all of your procs from trinkets and your enchants are probably running at this point, and throwing in all those extra things can leave you with them dropping off before ascendance is over. Not only that, you're adding an extra tick in that doesn't exist. From ele to the first LvB is only 3 seconds (2 GCDs), which is one tick.
    2. Which is why you FlS FIRST, so that when he spawns, he's already running towards the target. He doesn't have to wait for a tick, the targeting knows when FlS is running on a target.
    1. Nope, my trinkets are up during Ascendance...and even if I miss out 1 sec I make it up with my the extra lava burst you claim aren't possible to get.
    2. The tick does exist and it happens very often I get 1-2 extra proccs before I even get to stormlash...I don't know what's wrong with your flameshock if you can't seem to get a procc in. Reason I can get 2 proccs in is because it can procc right after LvB and again after my elemental blast because it is a longer cast.

    So again, your fire ele will not attack because of a flameshock. Go to a dummy now, cast flameshock on it and summon your ele...he will stand there like a retard untill YOU inflict direct damage. So again...unless you are lucky with a cast overloading or having an echo your ele will have less uptime on the boss then with how I do it because my fire ele attacks straight away + I get 1-3 extra lava burst more then you before I get to Ascendance.

    Have you even tested what you just claimed? I just tried it because you made me doubt it with how flameshock works, and it didn't work. No DoT tick makes your fire ele go attack the boss...all flameshock does is make the target it's applied to be more likely to be attacked by fire ele or searing totem...but then said totems have to be already engaged in combat.

    Edit: I'm not even sure if Fire Elemental responds to lighting overload or echo of elements...I think that's something you'd have to ask a GM because it's close to impossible to measure if it does...
    Last edited by Sarac; 2013-02-19 at 08:14 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Sbronz View Post
    To solve the issue with Fele standing without attacking i open with:
    prepot + EB
    Fire ele ( LB lands that the Fele is actually already out, so he starts attacking whenever the travel time of LB is over)
    FS
    LvB
    SL (if i'm the 1st assigned to)
    ascendance and so on
    I open with EB cause usually trinkets (especially DMC one) procs 2-3 secs into the fight, and 3.2k int > 3.5 haste or mastery
    "I open with EB cause usually trinkets (especially DMC one) procs 2-3 secs into the fight, and 3.2k int > 3.5 haste or mastery"

    What?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowl View Post
    "I open with EB cause usually trinkets (especially DMC one) procs 2-3 secs into the fight, and 3.2k int > 3.5 haste or mastery"

    What?
    He wants to combine the buff from EB with trinket proccs, but that useless to count on since trinkets can procc straight away or 10 seconds in...Unless someone uses on use trinkets there is no use of letting influence a rotation.

  18. #38
    I feel we should move the discussion of the fire ele to its own topic as not to derail the OP's video thread.

  19. #39
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    1. Nope, my trinkets are up during Ascendance...and even if I miss out 1 sec I make it up with my the extra lava burst you claim aren't possible to get.
    2. The tick does exist and it happens very often I get 1-2 extra proccs before I even get to stormlash...I don't know what's wrong with your flameshock if you can't seem to get a procc in. Reason I can get 2 proccs in is because it can procc right after LvB and again after my elemental blast because it is a longer cast.

    So again, your fire ele will not attack because of a flameshock. Go to a dummy now, cast flameshock on it and summon your ele...he will stand there like a retard untill YOU inflict direct damage. So again...unless you are lucky with a cast overloading or having an echo your ele will have less uptime on the boss then with how I do it because my fire ele attacks straight away + I get 1-3 extra lava burst more then you before I get to Ascendance.

    Have you even tested what you just claimed? I just tried it because you made me doubt it with how flameshock works, and it didn't work. No DoT tick makes your fire ele go attack the boss...all flameshock does is make the target it's applied to be more likely to be attacked by fire ele or searing totem...but then said totems have to be already engaged in combat.

    Edit: I'm not even sure if Fire Elemental responds to lighting overload or echo of elements...I think that's something you'd have to ask a GM because it's close to impossible to measure if it does...
    1. You're talking a very small chance at ONE extra LvB vs. the guaranteed damage of a precast LB. Sure, very rarely the LvB will pull ahead. But the LB is predictable.
    2. There's no way you get two LvB procs in the space of 3 seconds.
    3. How funny, since I just now walked up to the dummy in shrine, flameshocked, and then cast fire elemental. The ele immediately immolated and attacked, running his full duration without me casting a single spell other than the flame shock immediately before it. :|

    Oh, you know what? I bet it's because you're running EB and I run PE. I have improved AI on mine, so it immediately begins attacking if flameshock is on the target. Confusion solved. I suppose it's probably best for each of us to continue with what we use, considering that.

    Edit: nevermind, I tested it again to make sure and it didn't the second time. I had tested searing totem right before that, so the combat before must have triggered something. Gonna try with the precasted LB to see if that changes anything. I'm positive that damn thing always attacks the second it drops when I'm on bosses.
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  20. #40
    Does PE have improved AI as well as improved damage?

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