How could a Demon Hunter class work in WoW?

[Teriz]

1) They probably won't be implemented as their signature moves are all prominently possessed by other classes. Basically, in WoW terms a Demon Hunter is a kind of Night Elf Warlock.

2) If they were implemented they'd have to resemble their Warcraft III incarnation to a great extent. How Blizzard could do that without removing Metamorphosis from Warlocks I have no idea.

3) A triple melee DPS spec is the last thing on earth Blizzard would want to add to the game. I suspect they'd have to be tank/DPS (presumably melee). The last thing WoW needs is any more melee specs.

4) Of course they would be nothing like D3's "Demon Hunters" those are completely different things. The only thing they have in common is the name. Are WoW's Rogues anything like the Rogue from Diablo/Diablo 2? Silly.

1.Untrue. There are Demon Hunter NPCs in WoW who are just like the Demon Hunters in WC3.
2.It can be done. The Warlock version could be the more complex version of Metamorphosis, while the DH version would be the more simple version. That would make sense as Warlocks should have more control over Demonic magic than DHs would.
3. There are actually still more caster/ranged classes than melee classes. Spec wise I think its pretty close though. However there are ways to make this class blur the line a bit.
4.In this we agree.

[Deleted]

haha Teriz. U indulge me with this thread =P. THE Demon hunter concept people so want is in my sig... alive and kicking haters!

[Teriz]

haha Teriz. U indulge me with this thread =P. THE Demon hunter concept people so want is in my sig... alive and kicking haters!

Not even close. Its an interesting class concept, but it isn't Demon Hunters as presented in Warcraft 3. More like a mish-mash of various classes.

[Deleted]

Not even close. Its an interesting class concept, but it isn't Demon Hunters as presented in Warcraft 3. More like a mish-mash of various classes.

147 ppl disagree with u...

[Jokubas]

My answer to Ghostcrawler's quote is twofold. Thematically, flavor-wise, yes, there is room. There is nothing playable in the game like Demon Hunters. Otherwise, there wouldn't still be such a demand for it. Mechanically, well, I began thinking about this. I've been away for awhile and don't know a lot about how the classes I don't play have changed. Looking at Warlock, it really has moved in on a lot of Demon Hunter's design space. It's not enough to make me feel like Warlocks can be roleplayed as Demon Hunters, but it might be enough to prevent them from getting made. If Blizzard continued down this path, there are two things they'd need to do to appease Demon Hunter fans. 1) Alter or add a spec that's melee based. 2) Allow night elves to be warlocks (it would be assumed all night elf Warlocks are canonically Demon Hunters, just as all Tauren paladins are canonically Sunwalkers).

If they want to do Demon Hunters justice, however, here are some things I'd like them to do.
1) Make them a hero class, with a full starting zone and everything, where you train to become a Demon Hunter and participate in all the rituals to become one.
2) Hand out some transmoggable gear during the starting zone, that allow you to use the iconic look.
3) Either through glyphs or abilities, allow features like horns and wings to be (more or less) permanently there, so you can show your gear and look transformed, unlike druids.

Now for the actual way the class is played, I'm not really sure. I just want some sort of dual-wielding class with lots of fel magic, Shadowflame damage, that kinda thing. I wouldn't mind if a spec was inspired by the Diablo 3 class. That's not how they are in Warcraft currently, but it's not a bad idea.

P.S. I want to play a Draenei Demon Hunter. ;P

[Teriz]

147 ppl disagree with u...

LoL! No they don't. They simply like your idea. And like I said, its an interesting idea. However, your concept isn't really a Demon Hunter as presented in WC3 or even WoW itself.

The implementation I'm talking about should be as thematically close to DHs in WoW and WC3 as possible without going to far off the rails.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 04:08 AM ----------

My answer to Ghostcrawler's quote is twofold. Thematically, flavor-wise, yes, there is room. There is nothing playable in the game like Demon Hunters. Otherwise, there wouldn't still be such a demand for it. Mechanically, well, I began thinking about this. I've been away for awhile and don't know a lot about how the classes I don't play have changed. Looking at Warlock, it really has moved in on a lot of Demon Hunter's design space. It's not enough to make me feel like Warlocks can be roleplayed as Demon Hunters, but it might be enough to prevent them from getting made. If Blizzard continued down this path, there are two things they'd need to do to appease Demon Hunter fans. 1) Alter or add a spec that's melee based. 2) Allow night elves to be warlocks (it would be assumed all night elf Warlocks are canonically Demon Hunters, just as all Tauren paladins are canonically Sunwalkers).

If they want to do Demon Hunters justice, however, here are some things I'd like them to do.
1) Make them a hero class, with a full starting zone and everything, where you train to become a Demon Hunter and participate in all the rituals to become one.
2) Hand out some transmoggable gear during the starting zone, that allow you to use the iconic look.
3) Either through glyphs or abilities, allow features like horns and wings to be (more or less) permanently there, so you can show your gear and look transformed, unlike druids.

Now for the actual way the class is played, I'm not really sure. I just want some sort of dual-wielding class with lots of fel magic, Shadowflame damage, that kinda thing. I wouldn't mind if a spec was inspired by the Diablo 3 class. That's not how they are in Warcraft currently, but it's not a bad idea.

This class would definitely have to be a hero class. There's just no way you can be a lvl 1 Demon Hunter in Silvermoon. Just wouldn't make any sense. Demon Hunters should start at level 55. Next 4-5 levels and then the DH goes to Outland for the Burning Crusade.

[Eroginous]

This class would definitely have to be a hero class. There's just no way you can be a lvl 1 Demon Hunter in Silvermoon. Just wouldn't make any sense. Demon Hunters should start at level 55. Next 4-5 levels and then the DH goes to Outland for the Burning Crusade.

Assuming you're not desperately trying to cling to BC/Wotlk era game development, I just have to point out that Blizzard has already proven why 'hero classes' are a terrible idea. They've taken DKs, nerfed them repeatedly so they are balanced in pvp, and have effectively removed their 'hero class' status in every way except for by title. The fact that you keep bringing up 'WC3 and Wow' Demon Hunters, further shows how out of touch you are with today's Wow development.

The Wow universe is not limited or bound to the WC3 universe in anyway, one only needs to point to the countless examples of things which are present in Wow but not in any of the Warcraft games. If Blizzard decided to implement DH in some way, it would most likely not be it's own class and it would definitely not be a hero class. In all seriousness, Blizzard has been extremely hesitant to add any classes to the game, only adding monks because it fit with the expansion they were developing. Coincidentally, 99% of the monk that ended up into MoP had to be created post WC3, and only shares some cosmetic/thematic resemblance.

[Teriz]

Assuming you're not desperately trying to cling to BC/Wotlk era game development, I just have to point out that Blizzard has already proven why 'hero classes' are a terrible idea. They've taken DKs, nerfed them repeatedly so they are balanced in pvp, and have effectively removed their 'hero class' status in every way except for by title. The fact that you keep bringing up 'WC3 and Wow' Demon Hunters, further shows how out of touch you are with today's Wow development.

Can you please post the link where Blizzard states that Hero classes were a terrible idea and never want to do it again?

Seems like you're trying to push your opinion as fact.

The Wow universe is not limited or bound to the WC3 universe in anyway, one only needs to point to the countless examples of things which are present in Wow but not in any of the Warcraft games. If Blizzard decided to implement DH in some way, it would most likely not be it's own class and it would definitely not be a hero class. In all seriousness, Blizzard has been extremely hesitant to add any classes to the game, only adding monks because it fit with the expansion they were developing. Coincidentally, 99% of the monk that ended up into MoP had to be created post WC3, and only shares some cosmetic/thematic resemblance.

Again, read post #27. Im not just basing this on WC3, since Demon Hunters exist in WoW and have a crapload of abilities. DHs in WoW don't use bows and crossbows, so let's find a way to make this work within the confines of what actually already exists in the game. Slapping D3 stuff into class design because we lack imagination is sloppy, boring, and lazy.

[-Superman-]

It's not really about opinions, it's about common sense. If D3 DHs don't exist in Warcraft or WoW what basis would they have to exist in WoW?

The only reason to implement a DH in wow is if there were a new Demon problem. If the next expac were Sargeras, and if there were hordes of Demons coming with him, a group of militant rogue Demon Hunters might follow him and enlist the assistance of other races in Azeroth (Not Pandas) to help eliminate the threat.

Just like any other WC or WoW scenario ever made to explain how Tauren are Paladins, or Dwarves can be Shaman. They just have to look for a reason and write it into the Lore. It's not some grandiose stretch of the imagination which you are making it out to be. You yourself said:

"Is there? Let's hear your ideas. The challenge is to come up with a Demon Hunter class that doesn't impede on current classes in the game. Given the sheer amount of posts about this class in nearly every thread regarding future classes and expansions, I'm sure there's some good ideas out there.

Also this thread isn't about whether or not Demon Hunters will be in WoW. This is about how the class could be implemented into the game without overtly clashing with current classes.

Oh, and feel free to participate in the poll. "

So, these posts are my way of participating, but it would seem if someone else's ideas don't mirror your ideas, they are pretty much dismissed in a somewhat condescending fashion.

[Yig]

Assuming you're not desperately trying to cling to BC/Wotlk era game development, I just have to point out that Blizzard has already proven why 'hero classes' are a terrible idea. They've taken DKs, nerfed them repeatedly so they are balanced in pvp, and have effectively removed their 'hero class' status in every way except for by title. The fact that you keep bringing up 'WC3 and Wow' Demon Hunters, further shows how out of touch you are with today's Wow development.

The Wow universe is not limited or bound to the WC3 universe in anyway, one only needs to point to the countless examples of things which are present in Wow but not in any of the Warcraft games. If Blizzard decided to implement DH in some way, it would most likely not be it's own class and it would definitely not be a hero class. In all seriousness, Blizzard has been extremely hesitant to add any classes to the game, only adding monks because it fit with the expansion they were developing. Coincidentally, 99% of the monk that ended up into MoP had to be created post WC3, and only shares some cosmetic/thematic resemblance.

Blizzard has said they learned valuable lessons from Deathknights and WOULD NOT be opposed to making a hero class again int he future if it was appropriate for the theme of an expansion, so you're just being jaded and wrong. Originally, people called hero classes hero classes for pretty much one reason, they wanted to play the hero units in WC3 that weren't in WOW yet, and they wanted an advanced character progression path to do it with.

The notion of what a "hero class" means wasn't defined by Blizzard until WOTLK, which pretty much is just that you start at level 55. They tried making it feel overpowered while not being overpowered, and they ended up learning from that error.

They already addressed this issue when talking about monks and when they were specifically asked why they were not a hero class and IF there would be more hero classes. The answer was that monks work as a concept at level 1 in a way they preferred, and that they had no intention of ruling out future hero classes if the theme called for it.

[Deleted]

Where's the option for it wouldn't work?

Demon hunters will not be a class. No matter how hard we all try to build and develop our ideas of them and how they might function.

Yes this is my opinion.

[Beefhammer]

It would fit more with the lore of the DH class that already exists in Warcraft. Unfortunately, we already have enough melee classes that pretty much do everything the DH does so there is really no room for them. GC already put the nail in the coffin for DH IMO stating pretty much what I just said.

[Deleted]

A hunter who tame demons instead of beasts, and who can enchant his ranged weapons.

[Eroginous]

Blizzard has said they learned valuable lessons from Deathknights and WOULD NOT be opposed to making a hero class again int he future if it was appropriate for the theme of an expansion, so you're just being jaded and wrong. Originally, people called hero classes hero classes for pretty much one reason, they wanted to play the hero units in WC3 that weren't in WOW yet, and they wanted an advanced character progression path to do it with.

I never said that Blizzard stated they would never do a Hero class again. I said that they proved why it's a bad idea. Having a class that is overpowered for the sake of pve/lore has a direct negative impact on pvp as we saw with season 5 and 6. It wasn't until mid expansion nerfs that Dks were reigned in and actually somewhat reasonable in pvp.

Then Cata changes pushed away the idea that any DK spec could tank, functionally altering each spec's mechanics to be more streamlined, and now Dks are an average class, just like any other. Like I said before, DKs are only a 'hero class' now by name. And even that's slipping, since GC stated there was no longer any real reason to limit the number of DKs a player can have on a realm per account. If the development of the game pushes an existing hero class down in power level to a point where they are no longer a hero class, then it's safe to say that future development of 'hero classes' would be pointless or a direct violation of design philosophy.

but it would seem if someone else's ideas don't mirror your ideas, they are pretty much dismissed in a somewhat condescending fashion.

Yes, this thread seems more like a 'validate my desire for my pet WC3 class to be implemented into Wow' kind of thread. If Blizzard had announced the next expansion, said they were adding a new class, and this thread was a speculation thread on what it would be, then I would see a point to all this. But as it stands, it's almost pointless to even discuss it.

[Teriz]

So, these posts are my way of participating, but it would seem if someone else's ideas don't mirror your ideas, they are pretty much dismissed in a somewhat condescending fashion.

I appreciate the participation. However, if we're trying to avoid clashing with existing classes, having a bow using class with Hunter in its name isn't a good starting point.

Then there's the other issue of Bow DHs not existing in the WoW universe at all. It's a bit bigger than a simple race/class combo. You're putting together two concepts that have nothing to do with each other, and comes from 2 different games that also have nothing to do with each other.

It just doesn't make sense.

[-Superman-]

I appreciate the participation. However, if we're trying to avoid clashing with existing classes, having a bow using class with Hunter in its name isn't a good starting point.

Then there's the other issue of Bow DHs not existing in the WoW universe at all. It's a bit bigger than a simple race/class combo. You're putting together two concepts that have nothing to do with each other, and comes from 2 different games that also have nothing to do with each other.

It just doesn't make sense.

The only way to make a class that won't clash is to go back to the WC RTS games and pick something else like they did with DKs and Pandaren. If that is the case, then here is the Demon Hunter from Warcraft 3.

Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by the greater Night elf society. They made a pact, long ago, to fight against the forces of chaos using its own terrible powers against it. These mysterious warriors ritually blind themselves so that they develop 'spectral sight' that enables them to see demons and undead with greater clarity. They wield demonically charged warblades in battle and even call upon demonic energies to augment their formidable combat skills. Although they are counted as some of the mightiest warriors within the Night Elves' society, the Demon Hunters are always maligned and misunderstood for making their selfless pact with darkness.

When reading through the WC3 version of a Demon Hunter, It reads more like a Warlock and less like a Hunter. So, from the WC line, the only DH that makes sense is the one we already have.

[Redmage]

A blue did say recently that they don't see them adding the demon hunter, not enough design space, overlaps too much with current classes couldn't make it feel unique etc etc.

[Zeek Daniels]

I think the WC3 version is the way to go. the 3 specs would be tank/dps/dps. I say tank because looking at the skills of the WC3 DH you had evasions and immolate aura. DH could be a very dodgy tank that could build in some RNG mechnics into the dodge like how warriors have stuff with blocks etc. Also Imo aura is perfect for AoE tanking.

[Kisho]

I've recently been levelling a Warlock as Demonology, and to be honest? While Demo Warlocks exist, there simply cannot be a Demon Hunter class. At all. It'd be far too similar to the Demonology spec.

That said, the Demonology spec itself seems to be 2 specs struggling for supremacy... The concept of the Warlock summoning hundreds of demons (or really strong ones), and the concept of the Warlock becoming a demon itself.

So in my opinion, I really doubt we'll see a Demon Hunter class. What we WILL see however, is a Demon Hunter spec... when Blizzard introduces 4th specs for every class in the next expansion.

There's a lot of possibilities there, and a lot of specs that could be spread out into two specs, or additions made to the existing classes to make interesting extra specs. There's been a lot of speculation on this topic too. So yeah: I bet Demon Hunters will be a 4th spec for Warlocks, with the Demonology spec being split into two and focusing on the core concepts I mentioned above.

[-Superman-]

when Blizzard introduces 4th specs for every class in the next expansion.

Is there a source for this? Showing 4th specs that is.