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  1. #1

    Trinket ICD and Proc Rates Announced

    - Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault - 15% chance on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 75 sec ICD.
    - Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun - 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.
    - Primordius’ Talisman of Rage – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    - Spark of Zandalar - 5.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    - Gaze of the Twins – 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    Looks like at this point Talisman and Spark will be BiS. Spark will have about a 35-40 second "ICD" which is the charge time for sparks. Could be faster depending on Real PPM RNG.

    The hit and expertise trinkets are good, but with all the hit and expertise on gear this tier I'm not sure how viable they will be.

  2. #2
    Hmmm, still probably going with Gaze and Primordius' for my spec, they should work out nice and with my crit rating it should be able to make a decent uptime for both.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Spark will have about a 35-40 second "ICD" which is the charge time for sparks. Could be faster depending on Real PPM RNG.
    Hmm at 5 ppm and 10 stacks needed doesn't that mean you'd have 1 proc every 120 seconds before haste (and maybe like 90-100 seconds with haste)

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:46 AM ----------

    just some napkin math: (hope I didn't miss some magic formula here)
    Brutal Talisman: max ~ 1k Str; avg probably around 800-900 considering the proc chance, doesn't scale well with haste since it's no rppm
    Feathers : around 790 Str if it stacks up like I think it does (slightly less due to the icd)
    Talisman of Rage : 443.5 ignoring stacks - and because stacking is very unlikely since the proc chance is significantly lower than the uptime I doubt it'll be much higher than 500/600
    Spark: ~ 706 Str
    Gaze: 550 crit and the odds of stacking this are really really bad. (but it has Str as a base stat!)

    So my guess would be:
    Gaze > Brutal Talisman > Feathers > Spark >>> Talisman of Rage
    Unless there's some massive haste buff in which case it might just be the other way round (since talisman of rage will likely be extremely good once it's able to stack).
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-02-14 at 01:48 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Question : 5.2 Trinket value (formula and calcul) + 5.2 Stat weight

    I have some question and i need the help of the community to give me some advice.
    My first question is , with that formula, can you show me exactly how you calcul the value of a trinket ?

    Proc-variety Trinket Value =
    (Passive Stat x Passive Stat Weight) + ((Proc stat x Proc Stat Weight) / Trinket Internal Cooldown)
    Use-variety Trinket Value =
    (Passive Stat x Passive Stat Weight) + ((Use stat x Use Stat Weight) / Trinket Cooldown)

    source : Elite jerks

    Hast and rppm (source : blizz)
    Rppm (ex: 1) Hast players (ex : 20%) = Rppm x Hast = 1 *1.2.

    Stat 509 DW 509 2H
    Strength 1 1
    Yellow Hit .672 .674
    Expertise .672 .674
    Haste .443 .597
    Mastery .462 .339
    Crit .334 .394
    Hit Over Yellow .296 -

    Stat combat, to 1% of :
    Hit = 340
    Crit = 600
    Haste = 425
    Expertise = 340
    Mastery = 600

    My second question is : do you think the actual stat weight will change in 5.2?

    My third question
    is about RPPM and stack : how can i stack 3 times this trinket with only one RPPM?

    Gaze of the Twins
    +1657 Strength
    Equip: Your critical attacks have a chance to grant you 3238 Critical Strike for 20 sec. This effect can stack up to 3 times.
    - Gaze of the Twins – 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    Last edited by Sombreblood; 2013-02-14 at 02:21 AM.

  5. #5
    Answering your 3 questions as best I can.

    #1
    That formula is the best way to calculate the trinkets. However it likely unusable because we don't have accurate calculations of the trinket's uptime. The internal cooldown is not valid for alot of these trinkets because they don't have internal cooldowns but they aren't on use. The way to calculate it would be like this:


    (Passive Stat*Stat weight)+(Active stat*stat weight)/Uptime

    Its worth noting that some trinkets are stack based meaning that the uptime while it may be high, varries in the amount of stat. This makes calculating difficult so it may be better just to sim all the trinkets in all possible combinations in order to find the BiS.

    #2
    Personally for frost I don't see them changing too much. For dw it probably wont in terms of priority. As 2h, crit could potentially surpass haste but i'm not sure, if it did, it would be likely only in bis gear. Sim yourself soon after the patch and after you get some upgrades and you'll see the changes if you add stat weights.

    #3

    RPPM is modified by haste, eg the more haste you have, the more procs you can get. The technical formula for calculating is as follows. ( Using windsong from an old bluepost, windsong has a 2 rppm)

    "For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you’ve got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%."

    It also notes that the "Time since last change" caps at 10 seconds.

    Personally, calculating this depends on a lot of things ,swing timer, abilities that are melee, abilities that are non melee and also whether the "ranged ability" includes things like death coil or howling blast.

    Sorry I can't give more info but the simple answer is that it isn't easy to calculate. How it can stack 3 times is mostly luck based I would assume. It probably has a high uptime but its unlikely you'll get 3 stacks, especially since DKs do not stack crit. Gaze of the twins will likely not be bis. ( Crit chance based procs rarely are).

  6. #6
    High Overlord Laroux's Avatar
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    Gaze RPPM is completely whack. Where is the link to the original post.

  7. #7
    Its on the front page, scroll down a bit.


    Edit: As soon as I said that i checked and it wasn't there. Here is the link

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6?page=79#1561
    Last edited by Nangz; 2013-02-14 at 06:38 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    It probably has a high uptime but its unlikely you'll get 3 stacks, especially since DKs do not stack crit. Gaze of the twins will likely not be bis. ( Crit chance based procs rarely are).
    Just wanted to point out that as long as you crit once per 10s, this trinket's proc rate is independent of your crit chance (essentially). RPPM changes the dynamic of crit-based procs entirely, assuming that "time since last proc" is actually going off time since last crit (otherwise "worthless" can't even describe this).
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    [/COLOR]just some napkin math: (hope I didn't miss some magic formula here)
    Brutal Talisman: max ~ 1k Str; avg probably around 800-900 considering the proc chance, doesn't scale well with haste since it's no rppm
    Feathers : around 790 Str if it stacks up like I think it does (slightly less due to the icd)
    Talisman of Rage : 443.5 ignoring stacks - and because stacking is very unlikely since the proc chance is significantly lower than the uptime I doubt it'll be much higher than 500/600
    Spark: ~ 706 Str
    Gaze: 550 crit and the odds of stacking this are really really bad. (but it has Str as a base stat!)
    You probably missed the basic formula to calculate passive stats from procs :P

    I'd probably go with Spark and Primordius.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    You probably missed the basic formula to calculate passive stats from procs :P

    I'd probably go with Spark and Primordius.
    Well I focused on getting a rough estimate for the avg stats those procs give :P

    Also why primordius? - imo all odds are against it except of course massive haste buffs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Gaze of the twins will likely not be bis. ( Crit chance based procs rarely are).
    It has str as a base stat.... who cares about the proc :O
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    It has str as a base stat.... who cares about the proc :O
    The proc is very relevant.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t131138-...3/#post2253823

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    So rppm scales with melee haste and not just overall haste?


    Also looks like wowhead links some odd downscaled version of the procs --> yeah gaze is probably bad once you consider the right Str levels of the other trinket procs.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-02-14 at 03:27 PM.
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  13. #13
    I believe that post specified melee haste because our melee haste is different to our overall haste due to unholy aura and icy talons.

  14. #14
    Edit: Someone else has provided the link. Ignore this post.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    I believe that post specified melee haste because our melee haste is different to our overall haste due to unholy aura and icy talons.
    I just assumed it was regular haste because basing rppm on melee haste sounds a bit excessive for frost /:
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Well I focused on getting a rough estimate for the avg stats those procs give :P

    Also why primordius? - imo all odds are against it except of course massive haste buffs.[COLOR="red"]
    Just take a look at the EJ post linked above so you can see which one is the correct formula

    Primordius is nearly always up and when it stacks it means even moar pew pew How can I skip it?
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Just take a look at the EJ post linked above so you can see which one is the correct formula

    Primordius is nearly always up and when it stacks it means even moar pew pew How can I skip it?
    Ahh well found it /: ... still sounds kind of fishy to me o0

    Ya if I calc it with full melee haste it does actually come out fairly high at least for frost.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-02-14 at 05:08 PM.
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  18. #18
    High Overlord Laroux's Avatar
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    Looks like I'll be going for Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault and Primordius' Talisman of Rage.

    So glad at least Shado Pan trinkets will be easy to get since you only need friendly rep with them.

  19. #19
    Was looking into possible getting the Relic of Xuen, but not sure if it's worth the gold with 5.2 hitting in 3-4 weeks presumably. How good will the Relic be come 5.2 compared to the new trinkets?

    It would be a 2/2 upgraded Relic vs. LFR versions and Valor 5.2 trinkets. Is it going to be worth to money to buy it now, or will I be replacing it with 5.2 trinkets (again, Valor/LFR versions).

    Currently using LFR version of Darkmist Vortex & Skullrender Medallion (no upgrades on either).

  20. #20
    Have the new trinkets all coded in but haven't quite gotten around to messing with them yet. Don't see myself being able to do anything with them until Thursday or so, probably.
    "I have it all simmed."
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