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  1. #21
    Festerblight will be the top Unholy single target in 5.2, definitely. On 2+ targets just stick with the typical Roiling bouncing to keep Diseases up.

  2. #22
    High Overlord Laroux's Avatar
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    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen This is not intended to work for dks, only for int. users/casters. GC just confirmed it on the PTR thread in the wow forums.

    Furthermore, mastery will not be the way to go in order to boost disease damage since it does not boost frost fever damage at all for unholy dks. Best thing to do is going for a haste softcap, then all out crit.

    You can still go for Gaze of the Twins, I am unsure how well this trinket procs but it may be worth looking, it's 1 RPPM looks lackluster, three stacks on it will yield over 15% more crit though.
    Last edited by Laroux; 2013-02-20 at 09:21 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Laroux View Post
    Furthermore, mastery will not be the way to go in order to boost disease damage since it does not boost frost fever damage at all for unholy dks. Best thing to do is going for a haste softcap, then all out crit.
    Its too early to say, really. Between the Scourge Strike buff, Gargoyle buff, and disease buff it may be enough to shift our stat weights around.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Laroux View Post
    You can still go for Gaze of the Twins, I am unsure how well this trinket procs but it may be worth looking, it's 1 RPPM looks lackluster, three stacks on it will yield over 15% more crit though.
    I can't find the post (I looked earlier to tell it to someone but couldnt find the link) but it's not just 1RPPM on it. A blue post said the formula for it is:
    1*(0.8*[crit %]) = xRPPM
    So a quick example I give is if you have exactly 20% crit it equals out to 16 RPPM on the trinket

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    I can't find the post (I looked earlier to tell it to someone but couldnt find the link) but it's not just 1RPPM on it. A blue post said the formula for it is:
    1*(0.8*[crit %]) = xRPPM
    So a quick example I give is if you have exactly 20% crit it equals out to 16 RPPM on the trinket
    As AWESOME as that would be, it's not how it's done, because if it was, it would never drop below 3 stacks.
    1*(0.8*[crit %]) = xRPPM is correct, but it's mathed out where crit % of 20 = 1.2
    So 1*(0.8*[1.2]) = xRPPM
    0.96 = xRPPM

    Also, if anyone was wondering, the mastery value in 5.2 with the current changes for unholy is about 1.53 (up from 1.32).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    As AWESOME as that would be, it's not how it's done, because if it was, it would never drop below 3 stacks.
    1*(0.8*[crit %]) = xRPPM is correct, but it's mathed out where crit % of 20 = 1.2
    So 1*(0.8*[1.2]) = xRPPM
    0.96 = xRPPM

    Also, if anyone was wondering, the mastery value in 5.2 with the current changes for unholy is about 1.53 (up from 1.32).
    Does that shoot mastery above crit for Unholy?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Does that shoot mastery above crit for Unholy?
    Will release full set of stat values closer to patch hit, crit and haste are harder to model than mastery when the sims haven't been updated yet.

    Edit: I don't expect crit to chance much, and I expect haste to go down slightly.

  8. #28
    High Overlord Laroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Its too early to say, really. Between the Scourge Strike buff, Gargoyle buff, and disease buff it may be enough to shift our stat weights around.
    This is how I like to break this down: gargoyle is on a 3 min. cd and mastery is only realized when it is out for 30 secs. SS shadow portion damage is a fraction of the original strike, nothing else can be really said about this. Now for diseases, I have tested this and I'm glad I wrote this down: 3k more mastery yields 2k more per tick for blood plague and +0 damage for frost fever.

    Dnd numbers are not even worth mentioning but here they are, dnd 3545 to 3896 per tick. These numbers are all relative revolving around +-3k mastery. The point of it is, rather than reforge for +3k simply go to dominion hold and hire the paladin fort the buff and do some tests on a dummy or turnip and see if reforging for 3k more mastery is even worth it.

    The only thing mastery buffs in decent numbers is death coil, and SR. The t15 4 piece is about the only real thing making mastery attractive for 5.2.

    To put things into perspective involving crit; 1 crit on a single pair of your diseases it they ran their full duration on just 1 target will give you a higher dps return than 3k more mastery on a diseases running it's full duration in the same test environment I mentioned above. Crit is harder to quantify put if you are sitting around 25% crit raid buffed in 5.2, then I would say those are very good odds, they sure as hell are good Vegas odds. If you throw in Gaze of the Twins, you will be sitting at around 30% as high as 40% throughout the entire raid encounter. Now if you go into Vegas with these kind of odds, the dealer would be yelling, "WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER"!!

    This is about as long as I will bother to make a post covering this topic; I should be studying for my classes.
    Only thing left to do is execute all the talk and theories when 5.2 launches, see you at the top of WoLs (again).
    Last edited by Laroux; 2013-02-21 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Laroux View Post
    This is how I like to break this down: gargoyle is on a 3 min. cd and mastery is only realized when it is out for 30 secs. SS shadow portion damage is a fraction of the original strike, nothing else can be really said about this. Now for diseases, I have tested this and I'm glad I wrote this down: 3k more mastery yields 2k more per tick for blood plague and +0 damage for frost fever.

    Dnd numbers are not even worth mentioning but here they are, dnd 3545 to 3896 per tick. These numbers are all relative revolving around +-3k mastery. The point of it is, rather than reforge for +3k simply go to dominion hold and hire the paladin fort the buff and do some tests on a dummy or turnip and see if reforging for 3k more mastery is even worth it.

    The only thing mastery buffs in decent numbers is death coil, and SR. The t15 4 piece is about the only real thing making mastery attractive for 5.2.

    To put things into perspective involving crit; 1 crit on a single pair of your diseases it they ran their full duration on just 1 target will give you a higher dps return than 3k more mastery on a diseases running it's full duration in the same test environment I mentioned above. Crit is harder to quantify put if you are sitting around 25% crit raid buffed in 5.2, then I would say those are very good odds, they sure as hell are good Vegas odds. If you throw in Gaze of the Twins, you will be sitting at around 30% as high as 40% throughout the entire raid encounter. Now if you go into Vegas with these kind of odds, the dealer would be yelling, "WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER"!!

    This is about as long as I will bother to make a post covering this topic; I should be studying for my classes.
    Only thing left to do is execute all the talk and theories when 5.2 launches, see you at the top of WoLs (again).
    You're looking at it all wrong. It takes 240 mastery to increase shadow damage by 1%, or 600 crit rating to increase crit chance by 1%.

    For diseases, that makes mastery definitively better than crit (480 rating for 1% damage boost for mastery, or 600 for 1% damage boost for crit).

    For the new Gargoyle, the damage is now completely affected by mastery, where it was not before. In addition, we get almost two extra Death Coils every 3 minutes since Gargoyle no longer costs RP.

    Taking armor into account, the shadow portion of Scourge Strike is 40% of its damage. This makes mastery and crit equal for Scourge strike, since 240/.4 = 600. So the Scourge Strike buff is neutral in terms of stat weights.

    One more thing to consider is our new tier bonuses. The two set favors crit, while the four set favors mastery.

    Now, of course there are other things to consider, such as that stats will scale with each other, and that at certain points stats may lose or gain value.

    Really what this culminates down to, is that until we have sims modeling everything, its too early to tell if our stat priorities will be changing.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Laroux View Post
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen This is not intended to work for dks, only for int. users/casters. GC just confirmed it on the PTR thread in the wow forums.
    Yeah not only is it not intended, it clearly doesn't work well enough. There's only a 4 second window on a proc to get your dots applied and it only procs on spells as you can see in this newly created video: http://youtu.be/ncxSzk62MU4

    Its totally not worth jumping though the hoops.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinzaram View Post
    Yeah not only is it not intended, it clearly doesn't work well enough. There's only a 4 second window on a proc to get your dots applied and it only procs on spells as you can see in this newly created video: http://youtu.be/ncxSzk62MU4

    Its totally not worth jumping though the hoops.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Thoughts on an Unholy Death Knight using Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen and using Festering Strike to maintain these 100% crit chance diseases permanently?
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen will only proc for Int users.
    So no, it won't ever proc for a DK once 5.2 hits live.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2013-02-21 at 03:35 PM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Thoughts on an Unholy Death Knight using Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen and using Festering Strike to maintain these 100% crit chance diseases permanently?
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen will only proc for Int users.
    So no, it won't ever proc for a DK once 5.2 hits live.
    Yeah that too, but wanted to make a video for the sake of it. :P

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Thoughts on an Unholy Death Knight using Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen and using Festering Strike to maintain these 100% crit chance diseases permanently?
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen will only proc for Int users.
    So no, it won't ever proc for a DK once 5.2 hits live.
    That's too bad. It was a lot of fun being affliction in ICC when you could crit-roll corruption any of the single-target fights using the NMIC.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    You're looking at it all wrong. It takes 240 mastery to increase shadow damage by 1%, or 600 crit rating to increase crit chance by 1%.

    For diseases, that makes mastery definitively better than crit (480 rating for 1% damage boost for mastery, or 600 for 1% damage boost for crit).

    For the new Gargoyle, the damage is now completely affected by mastery, where it was not before. In addition, we get almost two extra Death Coils every 3 minutes since Gargoyle no longer costs RP.

    Taking armor into account, the shadow portion of Scourge Strike is 40% of its damage. This makes mastery and crit equal for Scourge strike, since 240/.4 = 600. So the Scourge Strike buff is neutral in terms of stat weights.

    One more thing to consider is our new tier bonuses. The two set favors crit, while the four set favors mastery.

    Now, of course there are other things to consider, such as that stats will scale with each other, and that at certain points stats may lose or gain value.

    Really what this culminates down to, is that until we have sims modeling everything, its too early to tell if our stat priorities will be changing.
    So you are saying 1% Crit = 1% DPS?
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMetatron View Post
    So you are saying 1% Crit = 1% DPS?
    At 0% crit, gaining 1% crit as unholy is a 1% dps increase. Of course, as your base crit increases, the relative damage increase decreases.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    At 0% crit, gaining 1% crit as unholy is a 1% dps increase. Of course, as your base crit increases, the relative damage increase decreases.
    Yep, the forumla to find out how big a 1% increase in crit is : (crit % +101)/(crit chance+100)

  17. #37

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezia View Post
    You can also name a death knight Masterfrost. Just because its being used as a name doesn't mean it can't also be used to denote a playstyle.

  19. #39
    The Patient Mizuisha's Avatar
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    Anyone got a sim for festerblight at light movement (with a "classic" unholy rotation at that too for comparison)? I'm too stupid to work out how to change the priority list to festerblight currently. Would give a good idea of how "viable" it is compared to classic unh since most fights require light movement even if there is no target switching.

  20. #40
    All tests done with double strength trinkets in 509 gear with none of the 5.2 changes. (Disease damaged bumped up 15% huzzah, not to mention the much stronger trinket procs)

    Target Dummy:



    Light movement:



    Heavy movement:

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