Death Knight 5.2 buffs

[Murdos]

Well, that escalated quickly.

[Samsarathedk]

Might of the Frozen Wastes to 15% melee damage (down from 20%).
...
Icy Talons increases attack speed by 25% (down from 30%).
....
Blood Plague and Frost Fever damage +15% (down from +30%).$
What?
Howling Blast damage to primary target +8% (down from +23%). :
DAFUQ?
Scourge Strike damage +3.8% (down from 7.7%).
...

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More nerf to DK ?! more UP to DEMO ?! You must kidding !
You nerf us cause we are so OP in damage ? Right ? Explain me why i never see a DK in First place in world of logs then ? on any encounter to 25H.
Encounter kind will be different in 5.2? you lie. We near see all of them in guild and i can tell you there is nothing different from 5.1.

Tell me in WITCH SCENARIO WE can be competitive versus other class ?
5.1 ?
16 EPIC FIGHT.
1 competive : GARALON. Pro Mélee fight. AND GUESS WHAT ? WAR and ROGUE was > us.

Where is the time where DK and RET wasn't GAYZOR CLASS?
WHAT do you fucking SUCK CASTER C*** all addons?

Umm maybe it's just me but I destroyed the other melee on heroic garalon. The only melee who could hang with me were in fact the other frost dks.

As to the person who stated that festerblight will be the top dps spec. Didn't you notice that frost got buffs as well? Unholy and frost are competitive on the training dummy; however, when you factor in fight mechanics frost has and will continue to outperform unholy or the so-called 'new' spec being festerblight as the sheer mechanics of the spec are not designed like the "stop and go' play style which frost is compromised of. That being said, due to numerous fights requiring the ability to switch to adds whether they be far away like the slimes on Yor'shaj for example or beside the boss like Windlord frost will continue to outshine unholy as the latter spec simply does not have the tools (not to mention the lack of the superior burst damage frost brings to the table) to seamless weave in movement and speed without careful micromanagement and pre-planning for each fight. In summary, frost will continue to dominate as it did for the majority of cata with the exception of a few fights.

[Murdos]

You know, Frost and Unholy both bring some compelling arguments for them on certain fights in t15.

Horridon in particular; it's a fight with semi-streaming adds, and a consistent Main Boss to damage the entire fight through. Frost's ability to burst targets like a monstrosity from the frozen hells will be it's defining feature there, quickly taking the adds apart. Unholy though, it can theoretically roll powerful dots across everything the entire fight and contribute a lot of steady damage done. It's a compelling arguement either way, particularly if your ranged corps has a lot of control and burst.

It'll be interesting to see how these fights play out vs. the specs with the coming buffs.

[Shiira]

You nerf us cause we are so OP in damage ? Right ? Explain me why i never see a DK in First place in world of logs then ? on any encounter to 25H.

We aren't being nerfed, we are being buffed by less than we were going to be.

I am a dps death knight in a high ranked guild and I think we are fine.

We don't have to top meters to be fine, we are above average in terms of numbers and we have good utility.

As for topping meters, why don't you explain that to us? There are definitely bosses in this tier that we can top damage on, and there are many where we can be close.

[Murdos]

That you did so while attacking the person's english comprehension is icing on the cake.

You attack me for leaving out a point, then make your entire point hinge on an implication.

The irony is hilarious.

See here's the thing about implications in the English language, they're subjective to the available data.

He excised that quote from a larger discussion in a single thread, wherein GC mentioned many more buffs across the board for other classes - in the same thread and for some of them the same POST - which that particular quote is cribbed from, ergo the implication that other classes are being buffed stands, and in fact the t14 bonus was the beginning point of this entire dialogue so it wasn't made up nor an outlier either. All of this is part of the original discussion, which is linked back on page 2, and has been the source of our entire debate since the start.

So you're sitting here, trying to defend someone taking a single, isolated part of a conversation, strawmanning it into self-martyrdom, and then refusing to offer proof, just to waggle your english degrees at people and condescend to them on 'implications', while making nothing but unsubstansiated implications yourself.

And with a 3.9 GPA, I'd thought you'd have learned to research before you speak.

Irony.

[Skarssen]

Well, that escalated quickly.

I've been meaning to talk to you about that Murdos. You should lay low for a while because you are probably wanted for murder.

[Murdos]

I've been meaning to talk to you about that Murdos. You should lay low for a while because you are probably wanted for murder.

Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.

[Deleted]

Do AOE is fine for DK BTW?
Meljarak
BEST DK (frost) dps : 738 730 (-24.60%)
Best PAL (RET) : 756 059 (-21.75%)
Average : -23.17%
BEST Mage (arcane) dps : 920 528

And once again : 5 mage = 6 DK/ret
Not even close.

[Murdos]

You know, we really need to do away with this idea that because one class on one fight/encounter is better then the others, that all other classes are useless. It's bad juju, man.

[Deleted]

stop you'r dark magic, trolls ! Data don't lie. I just prove you we can't > them in MONO nor AOE scenario. I don't have rolls DK to perform on TRASH MOBS!
And its not about useless or not, its about competition.
I don't say "nerf X or up X" , i say : balanced them all.
If arcane fuck me by ~20% in mono scenario : up me to +20%.
If he fuck me by ~20% in aoe too : up me by +20% in aoe!

Its elementary maths!

And its ok if he fuck me by ~ 20% in mono and i fuck him by ~20% in aoe ! its a kind of balance.

[Faenlyn]

You attack me for leaving out a point, then make your entire point hinge on an implication.

An implication based on elementary logic. Given the question, "Why are you buffing DK DPS? It's fine in 5.1" which GC quoted and started his reply discussing how scaling will be different between the classes going from 5.1 to 5.2, the implication backed by a minimum use of logic, is that DKs do not scale as well as others do.

Other then that he offered other reasons as well. However he did not offer "we are buffing DK DPS because we are buffing other classes" as a reason and never would. That would setup a DPS arms race and I don't believe that is how Blizz balances DPS between classes.

Rather it appears that they set a target DPS and then balance classes to reach that target. I am aware that he discussed buffs to SP and to Hunters in the same post. That he would later post "We overshot the mark on DKs and hunters a little" leads further credence to the observation that they balance to a target and that they do not balance class buff against class buff.

So the question returns to why are DKs not meeting their target in 5.2 if they are fine in 5.1. We go back to GCs answer

1. Scaling from 5.2 stats. 2. Set bonuses 3. Trinkets and Meta gems. 4. DK T14 nerf
and NOT buffs to other classes. Those are happening independently as they try to match each spec's DPS to their target goal

[Murdos]

So, not going to reply to the fact he left out the entire thread that quote was taken from, huh?

Not going to take into account that he ignored this entire thread of debate beforehand to boot.

Just, gonna cling to that one isolated quote apart from all it's relative data.

Classy.

[Semani]

Do AOE is fine for DK BTW?
Meljarak
BEST DK (frost) dps : 738 730 (-24.60%)
Best PAL (RET) : 756 059 (-21.75%)
Average : -23.17%
BEST Mage (arcane) dps : 920 528

And once again : 5 mage = 6 DK/ret
Not even close.

If you are looking at heroic, that is more of a single target burst disparity than an AoE disparity. After burning a set of adds, the boss takes 600% more damage for 30 seconds, which is huge for classes that can burst, such as Paladins. This isn't a good fight for AoE comparisons.

[Shiira]

And once again : 5 mage = 6 DK/ret

Why are you comparing us to a spec that everyone knows is overpowered?

Of course we will be behind.

[HammerofJack]

Dk's were doing fine, don't have to make them ridiculous now

Tune it down Blizz!

[Raptor With a Saber]

Only post i seen was nerfs

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Might of the Frozen Wastes to 15% melee damage (down from 20%).
Icy Talons increases attack speed by 25% (down from 30%).
Blood Plague and Frost Fever damage +15% (down from +30%).
Howling Blast damage to primary target +8% (down from +23%).
Scourge Strike damage +3.8% (down from 7.7%).

[AnotherInternetOpinion]

I cant believe people really get upset about other classes dps. Play your class, the class you enjoy. Do meters really mean that much to you?? Being number 1 in a raid?? Wohoo!!

[SSHA778]

Only post i seen was nerfs

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Might of the Frozen Wastes to 15% melee damage (down from 20%).
Icy Talons increases attack speed by 25% (down from 30%).
Blood Plague and Frost Fever damage +15% (down from +30%).
Howling Blast damage to primary target +8% (down from +23%).
Scourge Strike damage +3.8% (down from 7.7%).

Now compare them to their live values.

Every single one of them is greater. Therefore, it is impossible that this is a nerf from where you are now. You shouldn't compare from one build to the next to determine the real value because that build isn't what you're playing.

[Deleted]

I cant believe people really get upset about other classes dps. Play your class, the class you enjoy. Do meters really mean that much to you?? Being number 1 in a raid?? Wohoo!!

Exactly. I play for the competition.
If you don't care about dmg meter and don't play dk : write a letter to blizzard and ask them to nerf you'r class.
THX.

If you are looking at heroic, that is more of a single target burst disparity than an AoE disparity. After burning a set of adds, the boss takes 600% more damage for 30 seconds, which is huge for classes that can burst, such as Paladins. This isn't a good fight for AoE comparisons.

/rankings/players/Terrace_of_Endless_Spring/Sha_of_Fear/25H/dps/
And now, there is 600% .?

warlock : 206 711 (0)
mage : 185 682
rogue : 181 353
Shadow : 180 062
War fury : 179 028
Dk frost : 177 080. (-16.73%)

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 02:46 AM ----------

Now compare them to their live values.
Every single one of them is greater. Therefore, it is impossible that this is a nerf from where you are now. You shouldn't compare from one build to the next to determine the real value because that build isn't what you're playing.

YES, its a buff from live. Yes, its an nerf from the last patch note. No, all class havn't be nerf from thel ast patch note. No, dk isn't OP and he didn't to be nerf when you compare his actually value in raid with other class.
More obvious thing to say?

[SSHA778]

/rankings/players/Terrace_of_Endless_Spring/Sha_of_Fear/25H/dps/
And now, there is 600% .?

warlock : 206 711 (0)
mage : 185 682
rogue : 181 353
Shadow : 180 062
War fury : 179 028
Dk frost : 177 080. (-16.73%)

So you're going to base your claim that DK's didn't need a nerf from the previous build to the most recent based on Live data. Even better, you're basing it on outliers.

You can't possibly be serious.