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  1. #341
    Every content patch someone says something about Melee being garbage because target switching and multiple-adds is too hard, and ranged get the easy job of sitting and hardcasting things all they want.

    It's part of PTR Yahtzee.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  2. #342
    Oh don't get me wrong, most content is notoriously melee-unfriendly in WoW, and going by past experience it's more likely than not that T15 will fit that mold. I just don't think the devs buffed melee specs to compensate. Because if they did, what about enhance, ret, and feral?

  3. #343
    I always found it to be an imagined malady of the super top-tier ruthelss progression guilds who'd gut their roster and make them roll alts to take care of the smallest gains in DPS, sort of like people stacking mages and rogues for Dragon Soul.

    The worst I've seen of it honestly in more... relaxed, raid environments is the fact that ranged classes aren't as affected by movement fights or target switches, just because they only have to press tab and resume rotation, rather then run twenty yards to the new target location.

    /shrug
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, most content is notoriously melee-unfriendly in WoW, and going by past experience it's more likely than not that T15 will fit that mold. I just don't think the devs buffed melee specs to compensate. Because if they did, what about enhance, ret, and feral?
    I can't speak for enhance or feral but ret is getting their 4pc T14 bonus baseline (2 minute wings) so that should be a significant buff to their damage

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    I always found it to be an imagined malady of the super top-tier ruthelss progression guilds who'd gut their roster and make them roll alts to take care of the smallest gains in DPS, sort of like people stacking mages and rogues for Dragon Soul.
    Nope. Not at all. Historically ranged tend to take up the top third of the raidbots all parses spec score rankings, usually with 1 rogue spec and fury mixed in. T14 is a marked and welcome departure from that norm. This applies to both normal and heroic rankings, although normal rankings near the end of each patch really don't matter.

    Yeah, I forgot about that ret change, it's so recent it's not in the patch notes I referenced.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2013-02-25 at 01:29 AM.

  6. #346
    Oh I wasn't suggesting they weren't always higher, I was explaining why; but also that it wasn't the super-extreme concept of 'melee are useless' because ranged are higher. Nobody ever just stacks 15 warlocks unless there's something to exploit like using Boomkin on Rags in Heroic Firelands.

    I'm fully aware this game is impossible without ranged DPS. Literally.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  7. #347
    For a significant portion of cataclysm the only reason to bring melee was literally so you didn't waste loot. That doesn't mean that guilds stacked all ranged, because most guilds are made up of friends and that would be a shitty thing to do, but it sure didn't feel great to play a melee. Hopefully T15 doesn't do that.

  8. #348
    Might just be me, but I dont really consider the dps gap from ranged to melee to be that substantial, especially this tier.

    Also, pretty excited for the buffs, although frost didnt really need them

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by HashtagCry View Post
    Might just be me, but I dont really consider the dps gap from ranged to melee to be that substantial, especially this tier.

    Also, pretty excited for the buffs, although frost didnt really need them
    Besides the outliers of mages and warlocks the dps gap wasn't substantial.

    Also, Frost does need these buffs since we don't get the overpowered tier anymore which was what kept us competitive this tier.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Also, Frost does need these buffs since we don't get the overpowered tier anymore which was what kept us competitive this tier.
    You're overstating the value of the t14 bonuses.

    For dw frost they are a 5.94% damage increase before the nerf. The t15 bonuses are a 5.3% damage increase.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    feral is the lowest melee spec in the game in 5.1, recently beating WW for that honor.
    Are you for real? You just stated the perhaps two strongest melee speccs currently in the game.
    Siegecrafter Blackfuse (25-N) testing is complete! Today's Wisdom:
    One man's Trash is another Man's Heroic Boss.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Are you for real? You just stated the perhaps two strongest melee speccs currently in the game.
    Strongest? What criteria are you using to designate them as "strongest"? Neither are anywhere near the top in PVE damage, which is what Schizoide is referring to in that post.

  13. #353
    You can safely assume I'm always talking PvE unless I specifically say otherwise.

    Although since he said WW was strong I think he may just be on crack cocaine.

  14. #354
    Windwalkers are definitely up there on simcraft, they aren't doing quite as well in real content but it would be a stretch to call them weak.

  15. #355
    It is generally not advisable to compare classes with other classes using SimC.

    Errors inherent to a certain class tend to cancel out when looking at spec balance. This is not true, however, when looking at class balance.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  16. #356
    Simcraft rankings between classes totally don't matter at all. Ignore them.

  17. #357
    Every ranged DPS needs to have a movement penalty. Warlocks and Hunters not losing any DPS by moving is absurd. Fire Mage mobility is too high as well.

    Melee are just shitty hunters essentially.
    I can't remember the last fight where melee have been significantly stronger than ranged, but boy are there alot of fights where ranged are way better.

  18. #358
    Hunters are the only OP class in-game atm (imo)

    Too much Deterence
    Too much movement dps
    Too much imunity
    Too many CC
    Zoo in arena!

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    They buffed DKs because melee are garbage in T15. I'll most likely be main swapping or playing my boomkin a hell of a lot more.
    thank you, these other people arguing, yet none of them even raid test, i do with some of the best players in the whole world, and i stated that we are not in a very good spot so i get called a bad dk by someone who doesn't even raid heroics, nor does any ptr raid testing. i find this insulting and upsetting. some people don't listen to progression raiders who are actually testing.

    don't compare yourselves to ptr LFR, unless your in there with real raiders who know how to play their class stop arguing. and for the record unholy dks scale very badly, and 2-hand frost after the t14 nerf is really hurting. so be prepared once you start getting heroic gear and so do your fellow raiders. its why i posted GCs forum post, but alas no-one listened, just debated over my lack of english and grammer.
    Last edited by damescool; 2013-02-25 at 05:55 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by damescool View Post
    thank you, these other people arguing, yet none of them even raid test, i do with some of the best players in the whole world, and i stated that we are not in a very good spot so i get called a bad dk by someone who doesn't even raid heroics, nor does any ptr raid testing. i find this insulting and upsetting. some people don't listen to progression raiders who are actually testing.

    don't compare yourselves to ptr LFR, unless your in there with real raiders who know how to play their class stop arguing. and for the record unholy dks scale very badly, and 2-hand frost after the t14 nerf is really hurting. so be prepared once you start getting heroic gear and so do your fellow raiders. its why i posted GCs forum post, but alas no-one listened, just debated over my lack of english and grammer.
    I raid in Exodus with Rammy and Arv, two very good DKs, and they are top 5 DPS on every single fight.

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